HABITS OF MACKEREL.

By Senator EDMUNDS:

Q. What time do the mackerel first appear on this coast?-A. About the first or middle of June.

Q. Do they spawn after they get here?—A. As a general thing, I don't think they do. There may be a few exceptions, but, as a general thing, I think the fish spawn previous to June.

Q. Do you think they spawn farther south?-A. Farther south, yes.

Q. Do you believe that the fish that were found off Hatteras last March, for instance, and so along up the coast off Maryland, Delaware, and New Jersey, and and off Block Island, are the same ones?-A. I do.

By Senator FRYE:

Q. What do you understand to be the opinion of the mackerel fishermen of Maine as to this question of a close time?-A. I believe that I could get ninety-nine out of one hundred to say that this is one thing that ought to be done, to make a close seaI am sure that this is the opinion of the great majority of all fishermen in Q. Is that early fishing conducted by any fishermen except those of Maine and Massachusetts?-A. No, sir.

son. Maine.

Q. None in New York?-A. None in New York.

Q. And none farther south?-A. None farther south.

By Senator EDMUNDS:

Q. Do those fish spawn in the Gulf of St. Lawrence?-A. I don't think they do. Q. You think when they are first found in the Gulf of St. Lawrence is after they have finished their spawning?-A. Yes, I think so.

By Senator FRYE:

THREE-MILE LIMIT.

Q. Have any of your vessels met with any difficulty down there?-A. Not any. Q. They have been within the 3-mile shore line?-A. I presume not. We have had two or three there fishing, but we gave them instructions not to fish within the 3 miles, and I presume they have not.

Q. Have you pursued any mackerel fishing in the Gulf of St. Lawrence?

The WITNESS. This year?

Senator FRYE. Yes.

A. We had three or four vessels this

year.

Q. Did they fish within 3 miles of the shore line?-A. They say they did not.

Q. Was there any necessity for doing so?-A. No, sir.

Q. Were there any other Portland fishermen up there?-A. Some.

Q. Did they fish within that limit?-A. I don't think they did; I think they all had instructions to avoid it. Even if they had desired to fish so near shore, the water is so shallow that they could not do it with safety.

Q. With seines?—Ă. No, sir; not with seines. That is about all the way it is done now.

By Senator SAULSBURY:

CLOSE SEASON.

Q. What would be the effect upon the consumers of fresh fish if we were to have a close season? Do you suppose they could procure any other fish as cheap as those?-A. I should think it would give the people of the South a much better chance to market their shad caught off the Jersey coast.

Q. I understood you to say that there was a large quantity of fresh fish caught in the spring and consumed in New York and at other points.-A. Yes, sir.

Q. Of course they are consumed by the poorer classes of the city and surrounding country? I say, can they find anything else as a substitute so cheap as those?—A. Î think so. I think other fish are as plentiful as those. The shad caught on the Jersey shore would have a better market, and the codfish and haddock, which they catch there are abundant. I don't see why they couldn't find a substitute. It is not always you know that they are cheap. For instance, last year mackerel were quite high there; they were scarce for a time, and there were not so many carried in as there were the year before. The year before they were brought in in abundance, and I have been told there were more destroyed than eaten. That is where the difficulty is, destroying so many in the schools.

IMPORTATIONS OF SALT AND FRESH FISH FROM CANADA.

Q. What proportion of the fish that arrive at this port are sent by the Canadians, or provinces?

The WITNESS. The proportion sent here?

Senator SAULSBURY. Yes.

A. Very few mackerel are sent here from the provinces, but quite a number of cod are brought in.

Q. I am speaking of fresh fish.—A. I think the amount of fresh fish brought in from there is very limited.

Q. What proportion do you suppose of the fresh fish that are sent to Boston and other different ports of New England are caught by Canadians and citizens of the provinces?-A. All I know is what I saw in the papers recently that they had been sending a great many fresh fish there; but probably it is a small proportion of what are caught, because we have a great many vessels here and in Boston that are freshfish vessels and do nothing else.

Q. What proportion of the salt mackerel sold at this port and the various ports of New England and other points are caught by the Canadians, compared with those caught by vessels belonging to this country?-A. I could state exactly if I had the statistics; my judgment would be perhaps 20 per cent.

Q. Has the present tariff upon Canadian fish tended to restrict the exportation of salt fish from Canada?-A. I think not. I think they have a certain quality that has to seek this market. Large codfish for packing purposes and export come here almost exclusively, you might say. Their small fish they ship directly to the West Indies. Q. Then, the tariff has not furnished any protection to the fishermen of New England, as I understand?-A. Not particularly. It is no protection.

UNITED STATES AND CANADIAN VESSELS.

Q. You spoke of the relative cost of your vessels and of Canadian vessels, and said that Canadian vessels would not cost more than one-half of ours. What is the reason of that? Have you better vessels?-A. We have better vessels; we have vessels built of oak and hard wood.

Q. Take one of your vessels of really just about the same value as a Canadian vessel, and what would it cost here?-A. I don't exactly understand.

Senator EDMUNDS. Built the same way and of the same material, I suppose. Senator SAULSBURY. I mean of just the same intrinsic value, say $5,000. If the Canadian vessel was worth $5,000, what kind of a vessel would $5,000 expended here build, of the same kind and out of the same material?

A. I don't know as I could answer that intelligently, because I don't know that I am sufficiently acquainted with the building of vessels.

DUTIES.

Q. You spoke of the duties upon articles entering into the construction of your vessels as one of the items of increased cost. Do you know about what duties would be paid upon the materials of a vessel that costs $10,000?-A. It is my impression that it is about 30 per cent upon the material, is it not?

Q. Upon such material as is dutiable, but all the material that goes into a vessel is not subject to duty.-A. No; not all.

Q. What articles that enter into the construction and equipment of a vessel are subject to duty?-A. The iron, I suppose, hemp, riggings, and sails.

Q. And anchors, I suppose.-A. Yes, sir.

TESTIMONY OF CHARLES A. DYER.

CHARLES A. DYER Sworn and examined.

By Senator FRYE:

Q. Where do you live?-A. Portland.

Q. What is your business?-A. Fish business.

PORTLAND, ME., October 6, 1886.

Q. How long have you been in it?-A. About eighteen years.

Q. Do you own vessels?-A. I do.

Q. How many?-A. I own eighteen first-class vessels and a great many small ones-what you call shore vessels.

Q. How long have you been the owner of vessels?-A. For eighteen years. Q. For the last ten or twelve years, what kind of business have your vessels been engaged in?-A. Mostly in the mackerel business.

Q. Any in the cod?-A. No, sir.

MACKEREL WHERE TAKEN.

Q. During the last twelve or fifteen years, where have the bulk of your mackerel been taken?--A. On the American shore.

Q. How far out?-A. They have been taken inshore and offshore.

Q. What proportion ouside of the 3-mile line along our shore?-A. I could not

say as to that.

Q. A very much greater proportion than inside?-A. I think so, on account of the shoal water.

Q. Do all your vessels use seines for mackerel?-A. Yes, sir.

Q. Do you go south in March? A. Yes, sir; I send four or five vessels.

Q. How long do they pursue the mackerel-fishing business in the season?—A. They start about the 15th of March and they get back about the 1st of June.

VESSELS AND OUTFITS.

Q. What is the average tonnage of your mackerel vessels?-A. Seventy-five tons. Q. What is their average cost ready for business?

The WITNESS. Taking seines and everything?

Senator FRYE. No; rigged for sea.

A. About $9,500 apiece.

Q. Are they built of white oak?-A. They are.

Q. They are substantially built, to stand the sea?-A. Yes, sir.

Q. What does the average outfit for a season cost?-A. From $1,200 to $1,500; some more and some less.

Q. That does not include the seines?-A. No; that is for the season, the whole season, not for the southern season, and includes provisions.

Q. What kind of provisions do you furnish your men?-A. Good; about the same as we have to home ourselves.

INSHORE FISHING.

Q. Have you during the last ten years engaged in catching mackerel in English waters? A. Yes, sir; but very little; most of our vessels have fished on this shore. Q. Any within the 3-mile inshore line of Canada?-A. No, sir; I think not. Q. Where have you been fishing this year?-A. I have had six vessels in the Bay of Chaleur, and the rest have been on this shore.

Q. Did those that were in the Bay of Chaleur fish inshore?-A. No, sir.

Q. What has been the result of this season's operations?-A. It has been almost a complete failure on this shore, and about the same at the Bay of Chaleur.

Q. As a mackerel fisherman, do you have any necessity for your men going into Canadian ports?-A. No, sir.

Q. Do you desire them to go in there?-A. I do not.

Q. Is there any occasion to fish within the 3-mile shore line?-A. No.

BAIT.

Q. In your opinion, based on your eighteen years' experience in the mackerel fishery, is the privilege of fishing within the 3-mile shore line of the Canadian coast of any value?-A. No, sir.

Q. Is the privilege of buying bait worth anything to you?-A. No, sir.

FREE FISH AND DUTIES.

Q. Do you know of anything in the fishery business that you desire of Canada, and which she can give you, that would be regarded by you as an equivalent for free markets for her in this country?-A. Nothing.

Q. What have you to say about the duty on fish?-A. I think if Canada is given free fish we shall have to give up the business to Canada, and she will have a monopoly of it.

Q. Suppose a treaty was made with Canada by which, for fifteen years, she could have free entry of our market, what would be the result upon the fishermen of

S. Doc. 231, pt 5-51

IMPORTATIONS OF SALT AND FRESH FISH FROM CANADA.

Q. What proportion of the fish that arrive at this port are sent by the Canadians, or provinces?

The WITNESS. The proportion sent here?

Senator SAULSBURY. Yes.

A. Very few mackerel are sent here from the provinces, but quite a number of cod are brought in.

Q. I am speaking of fresh fish.-A. I think the amount of fresh fish brought in from there is very limited.

Q. What proportion do you suppose of the fresh fish that are sent to Boston and other different ports of New England are caught by Canadians and citizens of the provinces?-A. All I know is what I saw in the papers recently that they had been sending a great many fresh fish there; but probably it is a small proportion of what are caught, because we have a great many vessels here and in Boston that are freshfish vessels and do nothing else.

Q. What proportion of the salt mackerel sold at this port and the various ports of New England and other points are caught by the Canadians, compared with those caught by vessels belonging to this country?-A. I could state exactly if I had the statistics; my judgment would be perhaps 20 per cent.

Q. Has the present tariff upon Canadian fish tended to restrict the exportation of salt fish from Canada?-A. I think not. I think they have a certain quality that has to seek this market. Large codfish for packing purposes and export come here almost exclusively, you might say. Their small fish they ship directly to the West Indies. Q. Then, the tariff has not furnished any protection to the fishermen of New England, as I understand?—A. Not particularly. It is no protection.

UNITED STATES AND CANADIAN VESSELS.

Q. You spoke of the relative cost of your vessels and of Canadian vessels, and said that Canadian vessels would not cost more than one-half of ours. What is the reason of that? Have you better vessels?-A. We have better vessels; we have vessels built of oak and hard wood.

Q. Take one of your vessels of really just about the same value as a Canadian vessel, and what would it cost here?—A. I don't exactly understand.

Senator EDMUNDS. Built the same way and of the same material, I suppose. Senator SAULSBURY. I mean of just the same intrinsic value, say $5,000. If the Canadian vessel was worth $5,000, what kind of a vessel would $5,000 expended here build, of the same kind and out of the same material?

A. I don't know as I could answer that intelligently, because I don't know that I am sufficiently acquainted with the building of vessels.

DUTIES.

Q. You spoke of the duties upon articles entering into the construction of your vessels as one of the items of increased cost. Do you know about what duties would be paid upon the materials of a vessel that costs $10,000?-A. It is my impression that it is about 30 per cent upon the material, is it not?

Q. Upon such material as is dutiable, but all the material that goes into a vessel is not subject to duty.-A. No; not all.

Q. What articles that enter into the construction and equipment of a vessel are subject to duty?-A. The iron, I suppose, hemp, riggings, and sails.

Q. And anchors, I suppose.—A. Yes, sir.

TESTIMONY OF CHARLES A. DYER.

CHARLES A. DYER Sworn and examined.

By Senator FRYE:

Q. Where do you live?-A. Portland.

Q. What is your business?-A. Fish business.

PORTLAND, ME., October 6, 1886.

Q. How long have you been in it?-A. About eighteen years.

Q. Do you own vessels?-A. I do.

Q. How many?-A. I own eighteen first-class vessels and a great many small ones-what you call shore vessels.

Q. How long have you been the owner of vessels?-A. For eighteen years. Q. For the last ten or twelve years, what kind of business have your vessels been engaged in?-A. Mostly in the mackerel business.

Q. Any in the cod?-A. No, sir.

MACKEREL-WHERE TAKEN.

Q. During the last twelve or fifteen years, where have the bulk of your mackerel been taken?--A. On the American shore.

Q. How far out?-A. They have been taken inshore and offshore.

Q. What proportion ouside of the 3-mile line along our shore?-A. I could not say as to that.

Q. A very much greater proportion than inside?-A. I think so, on account of the shoal water.

Q. Do all your vessels use seines for mackerel? A. Yes, sir.

Q. Do you go south in March? A. Yes, sir; I send four or five vessels.

Q. How long do they pursue the mackerel-fishing business in the season?-A. They start about the 15th of March and they get back about the 1st of June.

VESSELS AND OUTFITS.

Q. What is the average tonnage of your mackerel vessels?-A. Seventy-five tons. Q. What is their average cost ready for business?

The WITNESS. Taking seines and everything?

Senator FRYE. No; rigged for sea.

A. About $9,500 apiece.

Q. Are they built of white oak?—A. They are.

Q. They are substantially built, to stand the sea?-A. Yes, sir.

Q. What does the average outfit for a season cost?-A. From $1,200 to $1,500; some more and some less.

Q. That does not include the seines?-A. No; that is for the season, the whole season, not for the southern season, and includes provisions.

Q. What kind of provisions do you furnish your men?-A. Good; about the same as we have to home ourselves.

INSHORE FISHING.

Q. Have you during the last ten years engaged in catching mackerel in English waters? A. Yes, sir; but very little; most of our vessels have fished on this shore. Q. Any within the 3-mile inshore line of Canada?-A. No, sir; I think not. Q. Where have you been fishing this year?-A. I have had six vessels in the Bay of Chaleur, and the rest have been on this shore.

Q. Did those that were in the Bay of Chaleur fish inshore?-A. No, sir.

Q. What has been the result of this season's operations?-A. It has been almost a complete failure on this shore, and about the same at the Bay of Chaleur.

Q. As a mackerel fisherman, do you have any necessity for your men going into Canadian ports?-A. No, sir.

Q. Do you desire them to go in there?-A. I do not.

Q. Is there any occasion to fish within the 3-mile shore line?-A. No.

BAIT.

Q. In your opinion, based on your eighteen years' experience in the mackerel fishery, is the privilege of fishing within the 3-mile shore line of the Canadian coast of any value?-A. No, sir.

Q. Is the privilege of buying bait worth anything to you?-A. No, sir.

FREE FISH AND DUTIES.

Q. Do you know of anything in the fishery business that you desire of Canada, and which she can give you, that would be regarded by you as an equivalent for free markets for her in this country?-A. Nothing.

Q. What have you to say about the duty on fish?-A. I think if Canada is given free fish we shall have to give up the business to Canada, and she will have a monopoly of it.

Q. Suppose a treaty was made with Canada by which, for fifteen years, she could have free entry of our market, what would be the result upon the fishermen of

S. Doc. 231, pt 5-51