ess, indeed up to a year or a year and a half ago that ETS created was and quite liberally was that coaching was in essence a future effort and we had a panel about a year and a half ago in which we explored the extent to which some of their own research had not been disclosed and so what we're really asking is that if you've got the information as to what the impact is, for crying out loud, don't con people into not taking preparatory courses or coaching courses when in fact you've got a test which may determine what you're going to be doing for the rest of your life.

And I think that on the basis of the exchange that we had yesterday and even before that with ETS, I think we've fairly well come along at this point where they recognize what they were talking about was short term less than 4 hour drills. What everybody else is talking about were in fact courses which ran 20, 40 hours or longer. And everybody agrees now that if you take the longer courses, yes, you're going to improve your scores. There may still be a difference as to exactly what the average may be but we're coming pretty close to that.

And all that we're asking is the disclosure not from the coaching schools, but from the objective researchers as to what the impact of those courses are.

Let the let the test takers make their own judgment as to whether they want to take coaching courses or not. I don't want to force them. That information ought to be disclosed honestly and objectively.

Mr. DENARDIS. As I recall from my son's packet last year as he prepared to take the test, isn't there a reference made to that in the packet that is distributed?

Mr. WEISS. We're getting there, yes. If you were to check the stuff they had 2 or 3 years ago.

Mr. DENARDIS. Well, I think, Congressman Weiss, you have done the whole field of testing a great service. I really mean that. I think this bill-the mere existence of this bill has had a salutory effect on the whole testing field.

I think the question before the committee is should we actually enact it into law.

Mr. WEISS. You want to stop me on the 1-yard line. Is that what you're saying?

Mr. DENARDIS. Well, very often the threat of legislation brings about reform without its actual enactment.

Mr. WEISS. Right. Thank you.

Mr. DENARDIS. I have no further questions.

Mr. WEISS. Mrs. Pines, thank you very, very much, we appreciate your perseverance and you're taking your own time to come here and testify.

Our next witnesses are David A. Goslin, executive director, assembly of behavioral and social sciences, National Academy of Sciences and Alexandra Wigdor, study director, committee on ability testing, National Academy of Sciences.

I welcome you both and appreciate your patience in standing by.

STATEMENT OF DAVID A. GOSLIN, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, ASSEMBLY OF BEHAVIORAL AND SOCIAL SCIENCES, NATIONAL RESEARCH COUNCIL, NATIONAL ACADEMY OF SCIENCES, WASHINGTON, D.C.

Mr. GOSLIN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, it's a pleasure to be here. My name is David Goslin, I'm the Executive Director of the Assembly of Behavioral and Social Sciences, which is one of the eight major divisions of the National Research Council, the principal operating arm of the National Academy of Engineering.

In accordance with the Academy's Congressional Charter enacted in 1863, the Assembly responds to requests from executive branch agencies and from the Congress for advice on specific scientific and technical questions involving behavioral and social sciences and on occasion takes the initiative in proposing studies on topics of national concern.

Currently, the Assembly is reponsible for supervising the activities for 30 major committees and panels, involving over 500 distinguished behavioral and social scientists and other experts, and addressing a wide range of significant topics including national statistical programs, child development research and public policy, law enforcement and the administration of justice, population and demography, basic research in the behavioral and social sciences, human factors, vision and hearing, substance abuse, and aging. As you know, members of Academy committees serve without compensation othe than travel and other necessary expenses.

The Assembly's Committee on Ability Testing was formed in 1978 to undertake a broad examination of the uses and potential abuses of standardized ability tests in American society. Support for the committee's work was provided by the Carnegie Corporation of New York, the National Institute of Education, the National Institute of Mental Health, the Office of Personnel Management and the Ittleson Foundation.

Given it's broad mandate, a special effort was made at the outset to appoint as members of the committee a diverse group of outstanding scientists and other experts, a majority of who had not been involved in the existing controversies about tests.

Mr. WEISS. We do have a live quarium at this point, I'm going to remain and will continue the hearing but anybody who wants to go, we'll be here when you get back.

Mr. GOSLIN. The chairman of the Committee on Ability Testing, Professor Wendell Garner, is a distinguished experimental psychologist, a member of the National Academy of Sciences and former dean of the graduate school at Yale University. His schedule, unfortunately, did not permit him to be present this morning.

Among other members of the committee are Burke Marchall, former Solicitor General of the United States and now professor of law at Yale University, Philip Kurland, distinguished professor of constitutional law at the University of Chicago, John Tukey, professor of statistics at Princeton that many think is the most distinguished statistician in the United States, Sociologist William Sewell of the University of Wisconsin and chairman of the recent National Commission on Research, Marcus Alexis, former Commissioner of the Interstate Commerce Commission and Historian

Oscar Handlin. Two distinguished psychometricians, Lee Cronback of Stanford University and Mel Novick of the University of Iowa also served on the committee. A complete list of committee members will be submitted as part of Alexadra Wigdor's subsequent testimony.

The committee has completed its report, which is now undergoing final editing prior to formal publication by the National Academy Press. In light of the report's significance and the complexity of the issues it addresses, the full report will be released to the public on February 2, 1982 at a day-long symposium sponsored by the National Academy of Sciences. I and the Academy's new President, Dr. Frank Press, hope that you and/or members of the committee staff will be able to attend. We will be in touch with your committee staff regarding specific plans for this event.

Mr. WEISS. I thank you for the invitation.

Alexandra Wigdor, study director for the committee is with me this morning to offer substantive tstimony on behalf of the committee. She's a legal historian, trained at the University of Maryland and has directed staff work for the committee during the last 12 years.

Finally, let me add a word of personal perspective on this project and on the legislation being considered by the subcommittee. For the first half dozen years of my career as a sociologist, from 1961 to 1968, I realize that's 7 instead of 6, I participated in the series of studies conducted by the Russell Sage Foundation on the social consequences of standardized testing. In addition to authoring two of the several volumes that resulted from this work, I was responsibile for preparing the foundation's report, "Guidelines for the Collection, Maintenance and Dissemination of Pupil Records," which subsequently served as a basis for what is now known as the Buckley amendment. It was clear to us at the foundation in the early 1960's that the problems associated with the widespread use of standardized tests in our society transcended the many technical issues of validity and test bias that were being argued then and the have been so hotly debated in the intervening years. At the heart of the controversy that has surrounded testing are the central questions of what qualities, talents, and skills the society values most and how best to nurture them. As John Gardner put it in 1958, "the greatness of a nation may be manifested in many ways in its purpose, its courage, its moral responsibility, its cultural and scientific eminence, the tenor of its daily life. But ultimately the source of its greatness is in the individual who constitute the living substance of the Nation." If this is true; then the means that are used to differentiate one individual from another and to reward those attributes most highly valued will determine not only the fortunes of individuals, but also that of the society. It is my hope and expectation that the Academy's forthcoming report will make a significant contribution to what will and should be a continuing national debate on these issues.

With your permission, Mr. Chairman, I should now like to introduce Alexandra Wigdor, Study Director of the Committee on Ability Testing. Following her statement, we are prepared to respond to questions that members of the subcommittee may have.

Thank you.

[The prepared statement of David Goslin follows:]

PREPARED STATEMENT OF DAVID A. GOSLIN, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, ASSEMBLY OF BEHAVIORAL AND SOCIAL SCIENCES, NATIONAL RESEARCH COUNCIL, NATIONAL ACADEMY OF SCIENCES, WASHINGTON, D.C.

I am David Goslin, Executive Director of the Assembly of Behavioral and Social Sciences, one of eight major divisions of the National Research Council, the principal operating agency of the National Academy of Sciences. In accordance with the Academy's Congressional Charter, enacted in 1863, the Assembly responds to requests from executive branch agencies and the Congress for advice on specific scientific and technical questions involving the behavioral and social sciences and, on occasion, takes the initiative in proposing studies on topics of national concern. Currently, the Assembly is responsible for supervising the activities of approximately 30 major committees and panels, involving over 500 distinguished behavioral and social scientists and other experts, and addressing a wide range of significant topics including national statistical programs, child development research and public policy, law enforcement and the administration of justice, population and demography, basic research in the behavioral and social sciences, human factors, vision and hearing, substance abuse, and aging. As you know, members of Academy committees serve without compensation, other than travel and other neces

sary expenses.

The Assembly's Committee on Ability Testing was formed in 1978, to undertake a broad examination of the uses and potential abuses of standardized ability tests in American society. Support for the Committee's work was provided by the Carnegie Corporation of New York, the National Institute of Education, the National Institute of Mental Health, the Office of Personnel Management, and the Ittleson Foundation.

Given its broad mandate, a special effort was made at the outset to appoint as members of the Committee a diverse group of outstanding scientists and other experts, a majority of whom had not been involved in existing controversies about tests. The Chairman of the Committee, Professor Wendell Garner, is a distinguished experimental psychologist, a member of the National Academy of Sciences, and former Dean of the Graduate School at Yale University. (His schedule, unfortunately, did not permit him to be present this morning.) Other members of the Committee include: Burke Marshall, former Solicitor General of the U.S. and now Professor of Law at Yale University; Philip Kurland, Professor of Constitutional Law at the University of Chicago; John Tukey, Professor of Statistics at Princeton University; Sociologist William Sewell of the University of Wisconsin and Chairman of the recent National Commission on Research; Marcus Alexis, former Commissioner of the Interstate Commerce Commission; and historian Oscar Handlin. Two distinguished psychometricians, Lee Cronbach of Stanford University and Melvin Novick, University of Iowa also served on the Committee. A complete list of Committee members will be submitted as part of Alexandra Wigdor's subsequent testimony.

The Committee has completed its report, which is now undergoing final editing prior to its formal publication by the National Academy