tween his saying "I was not asked the question," or "I was asked the question" and saying what the answer was, because the answer is what would tend to incriminate him, not the mere fact that he was asked. Senator O'CONOR. That is correct. Mr. KINOY. In other words, sir, the committee directs the witness to answer that question? Senator O'CONOR. That is right. Mr. WALLACH. Sir, I don't remember. Senator FERGUSON. Now, your counsel just said, "Tell the truth." Mr. WALLACH. That is the truth, sir, I don't remember. Senator FERGUSON. Where you didn't even remember before, you claimed your constitutional privilege; and now you tell the committee you do not remember, as being the truth. Mr. WALLACH. Sir, I might point out that in the hysteria of the times, and in the persecution of a good many people, legitimate matters arise even on such things as memory, and I did not remember, and I sought the protection of the Constitution. Senator SMITH. Is that the line of instruction given you by the Communist Party, that that is the sort of an answer you are to give, make the sort of speech you are to make in a hearing of this sort? Mr. WALLACH. Sir, on the basis of the fifth amendment I must respectfully decline. Senator SMITH. I thought you would. Mr. MORRIS. Mr. Wallach, who helped you get your job in the United Nations? Mr. WALLACH. Nobody. Senator FERGUSON. Did you give any references? Mr. WALLACH. Yes, sir. Senator FERGUSON. Who were they? Mr. WALLACH. As best I can recall, sir, they were Brig. Gen. Adam Richmond, Col. Pinkey G. McElwee, and Col. Tom H. Barrett. Senator FERGUSON. Had you been in the military service of the Government? Mr. WALLACH. Yes, sir. Senator FERGUSON. What service? Mr. WALLACH. I was with the Judge Advocate's office, sir. Mr. WALLACH. Well, it had not been continuous in one section. It was roughly from about the spring of 1941 through-in the spring of 1941 I was in one judge advocate's office at an Army post, and then I was sent overseas and I was in another judge advocate's office. Mr. MORRIS. Were you a Communist during those two periods? Mr. WALLACH. Sir, under the fifth amendment to the Constitution I must decline. Senator FERGUSON. When you left the Army, did you go with the United Nations? Mr. WALLACH. Not immediately, sir. Senator FERGUSON. How long were you, from one to the other? Mr. WALLACH. I was retired from the Army, I believe it was July 1945. Senator FERGUSON. And went to the United Nations when? Senator FERGUSON. What did you do in that period between leaving the Army and going into the United Nations? Mr. WALLACH. Sir, under the fifth amendment I must decline to answer that question. Senator FERGUSON. Do you mean to say, that you were hired by the United Nations from a job that you held between the Army and the time you went in, that you now refuse to answer what the job was on the ground it would tend to incriminate you? Mr. WALLACH. Sir, on the basis of the fifth amendment. Senator FERGUSON. Who hired you? Mr. WALLACH. I don't-I imagine it was somebody in the Bureau of Personnel. I don't remember any exact name. Senator FERGUSON. Did you make an application? Mr. WALLACH. Yes, sir. Senator FERGUSON. Did you give any references? Mr. WALLACH. Yes, sir. Senator FERGUSON. Who were they? These people that you gave? Mr. WALLACH. Yes, sir. Senator FERGUSON. Did you know David Weintraub? Mr. WALLACH. At that time? Senator FERGUSON. Yes. Mr. WALLACH. No, sir. Senator FERGUSON. Did you know Kaplan? Irving Kaplan? Mr. MORRIS. Do you know Weintraub now? Mr. WALLACH. Not personally, sir. Senator FERGUSON. Were you before the grand jury here in New York? Mr. WALLACH. Yes, sir. Senator FERGUSON. Did you give a report to the United Nations as to what you were asked and what you answered? Mr. WALLACH. Partially. Senator FERGUSON. Partially? Why did you not give all of it? Mr. WALLACH. Because I felt that there were certain matters which affected my constitutional rights. Senator FERGUSON. On anything that you had claimed your constitutional rights, you did not tell the United Nations? Mr. WALLACH. I don't recall exactly what I did tell them, sir. Senator SMITH. In other words, you withheld from the United Nations authorities in making your reports information as to matters which you thought would tend to incriminate you? Mr. WALLACH. I requested further time from United Nations authorities to consult with counsel and with officers Senator SMITH. And did you make a further reply or report to the United Nations? Mr. WALLACH. I was summarily dismissed. Senator FERGUSON. Summarily, without trial? Mr. WALLACH. Without trial. Senator FERGUSON. And this appeal is to try to keep you in, is that right? Mr. WALLACH. It is to cancel the Senator SMITH. Who was the liaison between you and this man Bancroft, if anybody was? Who discussed the matter with him and then with you? Have you had an intermediary between you? You said you did not talk to him. Mr. WALLACH. No, sir. Senator SMITH. You are certain of that? Mr. WALLACH. Yes, sir. Senator SMITH. How can you be certain of that, unless you have talked to Bancroft and know that nobody has been to him from you? Mr. WALLACH. I am afraid I don't understand. Senator SMITH. You swore to tell all of the truth now. Mr. WALLACH. Yes, sir. Senator SMITH. And I asked you if there has been anybody who acted as an intermediary between you and Bancroft, and you are positive about that. I ask you how do you know about that if you haven't conferred with him and talked to him? Mr. WALLACH. So far as I know, there has been none. Mr. WALLACH. I would say on and off since about-well, some time after 1947 or 1948. I am not sure. Senator FERGUSON. Is he in your department? Mr. WALLACH. The Department of Conference and General Services; yes, sir. Senator FERGUSON. You take dictation from him? Mr. WALLACH. No, sir. Senator FERGUSON. Take conferences where he is involved? Mr. WALLACH. I don't recall him having been involved in any conferences. Maybe some years back I think there was a meeting of the Security Council in which he was present. I am sure. Senator FERGUSON. How much is your salary? Mr. WALLACH. I believe it was $9,000 something gross, and about $8,000 net. Senator FERGUSON. Do you know how many people have been asked by the United Nations, working as American citizens, as to whether or not they were Communists? Mr. WALLACH. Would you repeat that, sir? Senator FERGUSON. How many people have been asked by the United Nations, who are citizens of the United States, as to whether or not they were Communists? Mr. WALLACH. You mean by officials of the United Nations? Senator FERGUSON. Yes. Mr. WALLACH. I don't know, sir. Senator FERGUSON. You do not know that? Mr. WALLACH. No, sir. Senator SMITH. Do you know whether or not that question is asked at all by United Nations authorities of a person who seeks employment there? Mr. WALLACH. I don't know, sir. Senator SMITH. When you sought employment, did anyone in the United Nations ask you whether or not you were a member of the Communist Party? Mr. WALLACH. No one asked me that question. Mr. MORRIS. Mr. Chairman, while Mr. Mandel is getting the record of Mr. Wallach, the Communist record of Mr. Wallach, I suggest that we defer further questioning of him, whether it be tomorrow or at some subsequent session, until Mr. Mandel is about to get some necessary records. Senator O'CONOR. All right. That will be the order. You are therefore excused for the time being. Mr. MORRIS. The next witness is Stanley Graze. Will you be sworn? Senator O'CONOR. Do you solemnly swear the testimony you are about to give to this subcommittee of the Judiciary Committee of the United States Senate shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Mr. GRAZE. I do. TESTIMONY OF STANLEY GRAZE, NEW YORK, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, LEONARD BOUDIN, NEW YORK, N. Y. Mr. MORRIS. What is your full name? Mr. GRAZE. Stanley Graze. Mr. MORRIS. How is that spelled? Mr. GRAZE. G-r-a-z-e. Mr. MORRIS. Your address? Mr. GRAZE. 18632 Avon Road. Mr. MORRIS. Are you accompanied by counsel? Mr. GRAZE. I am. Senator O'CONOR. Identify yourself. Mr. BOUDIN. Leonard B. Boudin, 76 Beaver Street, New York City. Senator O'CONOR. What is your employment, Mr. Graze? Mr. GRAZE. I am a project officer of the United Nations Technical Assistance and Administration. Senator O'CONOR. For how long have you been connected with the United Nations? Mr. GRAZE. A little over 2 years. Senator O'CONOR. What positions have you held with the international organizations, if any? Mr. GRAZE. I worked for an economist for a while. Senator O'CONOR. Prior to your connection had you been employed by the United States Government? Mr. GRAZE. Yes; I was. Senator O'CONOR. What department or agency? Mr. GRAZE. The Treasury Department, War Production Board, and the State Department. Senator O'CONOR. For what period of time had you been holding these positions; over what period? Mr. GRAZE. About June 1941 until August 1943, when I went into the Army, and sometime early in 1946 until 1948 when I left. Senator O'CONOR. And what particular position did you hold with the State Department, Treasury, and others? Mr. GRAZE. I generally held positions as economist with these agencies. Senator FERGUSON. Did you ever know whether or not a loyalty charge had been filed against you? Mr. GRAZE. I decline to answer that question on the grounds of the privilege of the fifth amendment. Senator FERGUSON. Even though it was in the United States Department of State? Mr. GRAZE. I am sorry ? Senator FERGUSON. The loyalty charge in the United States Department of State, you refuse to answer that? Mr. GRAZE. I decline to answer that question; yes, sir. Senator FERGUSON. Did you resign? Mr. GRAZE. I resigned voluntarily from the State Department. Senator O'CONOR. When? Mr. GRAZE. In May of 1948 or April of 1948. Senator FERGUSON. How long after that did you get the job here? Mr. GRAZE. Where? Senator FERGUSON. In the United Nations. Mr. GRAZE. In July 1950. Senator O'CONOR. What did you do in the interim? Mr. GRAZE. I worked in private industry. I went to school for a while and taught for a while. Senator O'CONOR. What was your training prior to your accepting the position with the Federal Government in the first place? What was your background? Mr. GRAZE. I have a bachelor's degree and a master's degree in economics and statistics. Senator O'CONOR. From what institute? Mr. GRAZE. The City College of New York and Columbia University. Mr. MORRIS. Are you a brother of Cyril Graze who testified before in another subcommittee of the Internal Security Committee this morning? Mr. GRAZE. Sir, Cyril Graze is my brother. Senator FERGUSON. What was your job with the State Department? Mr. GRAZE. Economist. Senator FERGUSON. In what particular branch? Mr. GRAZE. I worked in the division for Europe. Senator FERGUSON. That period was 2 years, you say? Mr. GRAZE. A little more than that. Mr. MORRIS. You are an official in the Technical Assistance Administration? Mr. GRAZE. That is right. Mr. MORRIS. Do you do any work on the point-4 program of the United States State Department? Mr. GRAZE. I have no contact that I know of with the point-4 program. I work on the United Nations international technical assistance program. Mr. MORRIS. Do you know a man named Haldore Hanson? ment. Senator FERGUSON. Did you know Alger Hiss? Mr. GRAZE. I decline to answer for the same reason. Senator FERGUSON. Did you know Wadleigh, Julian D. Wadleigh? Senator FERGUSON. Did you know Elizabeth Bentley? |