repair field organizations. These have now come to the point where they have reached the hours of travel, the hours on the engines that they require a full major overhaul.

That is the point we have reached in the 5 to 6 years of operation. That has not been something we have not foreseen.

We do not have the capability to take 600 out of use, or 300 out of use, and put them in repair. We may not need to.

Mr. FLOOD. Where do you do all your overhaul, in continental United States?

General ALLEN. Yes, sir.

Mr. FLOOD. You cannot do any of this final overhaul in Okinawa, or anyplace else?

General ALLEN. No; not to that extent.

It is quite extensive, Mr. Flood. It requires tooling. It would be uneconomical to set up that kind of shop over there.

At one time, when we were heavy in Korea, and we had large Army repair facilities in Japan, they were repaired over there.

Mr. WHITTEN. You have maintained at all times a sufficient number of usable, workable alligators to meet the size of your organization and your foreseeable demands?

Mr. FLOOD. That is the point, Mr. Whitten. I have no doubt about that. I know this outfit, and I am sure that is it, but that is not what I am talking about.

I am talking about what they think their mission is, what kind of Marine Corps they are talking about, and what budget are they talking about.

Are you talking about the one you have here, and 170,000 bodies, and the way this thing has been operating; yes. But that is not the way we are going to handle the Marine Corps from now on. You are going to have 20,000 or 25,000 more bodies. You are going to have a different setup. Are you going to need more hardware?

What is your leadtime on this hardware?

We have to dust off the thinking of the Marine Corps and put you back where you belong.

Mr. ANDREWS. I think we better get into that when we get the procurement people in here.

Mr. FLOOD. I agree with that, but O. & M. is going to pay for most of it. It is the thinking. I had this trouble with the Navy all morning.

You have been mired down. You have cobwebs in your thinking. That is over. This is going to be a ground war operation.

I am sick and tired of these missiles. Forget about all this stuff you heard about missile war. There is not going to be missile war. The Marines are back in business and so is the Army. What are we going to do about it?

That is the problem.

You see what I mean. You have been stultified. Your thinking has been channeled, and you have been low man on the totem pole around here anyhow.

Mr. WHITTEN. Off the record.

(Discussion off the record.)

ADEQUACY OF HOUSING

Mr. ANDREWS. General, on page 6 you stated that adequate housing plays an important part in the effectiveness and efficiency of the Marine Corps through its contribution to the morale of the officers and men and its influence on their retention.

I agree with that. You have discussed with us the housing conditions at Parris Island. Do you have any housing problems anyplace else? Are you satisfied with the situation at Parris Island?

General TSCHIRGI. We are satisfied with Parris Island. Our housing is based on Department of Defense criteria. We are rapidly approaching that criteria, if present indications are carried out. We have scheduled 250 houses to be built at Twentynine Palms; 350 have already been authorized for Twentynine Palms. We had a request for 400 Capehart houses at Camp Pendleton. If the additional authorization for those 450 go through, the Marine Corps. housing situation will be satisfactory, in accordance with DOD housing criteria.

Mr. FLOOD. You don't even mention Okinawa.

Mr. ANDREWS. I was going to ask him about Okinawa.
General ALLEN. This is dependent housing, sir.

PARATROOP TRAINING

Mr. ANDREWS. You mentioned your training programs. Where do you train your paratroopers?

General TSCHIRGI. Our paratroopers get their jump training at Fort Benning under the Army. We send our people down there under the Army instructors and they take the regular paratroop training.

Mr. ANDREWS. How many paratroopers do you have in the Marine Corps? Will you supply that for the record?

(The information requested follows:)

We have a total of 34 officers and 313 enlisted parachutists billets in the Marine Corps. We have a total of approximately 60 officers and 400 enlisted qualified parachutists.

RECONNAISSANCE MARINES

Mr. ANDREWS. I was very interested in that program on TV last Sunday night, "The Recon Marine." Can anybody here tell us about that program? How long have you had it; how many are in it; what is its mission?

Colonel MCCABE. The reconnaissance marines, as we now have them today, started approximately in 1951. Their mission is to go in to reconnoiter and determine the most feasible landing areas for both amphibious and vertical assault forces, going in either by helicopters or by LVT's or landing craft.

The paramarines, that you saw demonstrated there, go in to determine the feasibility of landing our helicopters. They are part of the reconnaissance companies. They go in to determine if the area is clear enough, if it is suitable to drop our personnel in there. They set up landing guidance capabilities and also guidance systems for guiding in our troop carrier transports.

We have in each Marine division a reconnaissance battalion who are primarily amphibious reconnaissance personnel for beach reconnaissance capabilities. We have two force reconnaissance companies. These companies are designed to make primarily the reconnaissance for our vertical assault personnel. They are the ones that carry the paratroopers in them.

Mr. ANDREWS. How do they get on the beach?
Colonel MCCABE. Which ones, sir?

Mr. ANDREWS. The latter group that you were talking about.
Colonel MCCABE. They primarily go in in helicopters or as you saw
in the jets to make their reconnaissance that way or in submarines.
Mr. FLOOD. You have people jumping out of jets?

Colonel MCCABE. Yes, sir.

Mr. ANDREWS. I saw them.

Mr. FLOOD. What size jet?

Colonel MCCABE. It is a twin-motor reconnaissance photojet that can carry-it primarily carries the pilot and a radar operator. However, when it is used for jump purposes, that is, to carry our reconnaissance personnel-they do not carry the radar operator-they put in two reconnaissance boys, one of them in the radar operator's seat and the other one sitting sort of in the escape hatch that goes down between the two seats, which they slide out.

Mr. FLOOD. He goes out the chute.

Colonel MCCABE. Yes, sir. That is the escape hatch. We crowd one boy into that and one boy sits in the seat. Out they go. Mr. FLOOD. They take off from carriers?

Colonel MCCABE. Yes, sir. They are capable of operating off carriers; yes, sir.

Mr. ANDREWS. Do these men in that outfit get hazardous extra pay? Colonel MCCABE. The jumpers do.

Mr. FLOOD. Anyone who flies in that airplane ought to get hazardous pay. If it hits the water, you cannot get out.

Colonel MCCABE. The reconnaissance personnel, if they are not in jump status are just other marines.

Mr. ANDREWS. What about the ones on submarine duty?

Colonel MCCABE. The ones in submarine duty get it, and the scuba divers.

Mr. MINSHALL. How slow can this plane go?
Colonel MCCABE. I do not know that figure.
General NICKERSON. About 150 miles an hour.

Mr. MINSHALL. Is there a maximum speed at which one can jump out of a jet?

Colonel MCCABE. On free fall on such a mission that is almost a maximum.

Mr. ANDREWS. Thank you, Colonel. Mr. Flood?

Mr. FLOOD. You do not have jet transports with a rifle platoon jumping out in the air at 400 miles an hour looking for an island, do you?

Colonel MCCABE. No, sir.

Mr. FLOOD. I hope not.

USE OF HAWK WEAPONS SYSTEM

Tell us about this HAWK. Do the boys like the HAWK? What do you think of HAWK? You have got an increase in HAWKS. What would the increase in HAWKS support now? Would that be another battalion?

General TSCHIRGI. Yes, sir. We have a scheduled planned activation of HAWK battalions. I do not think I should give it on the record.

Mr. FLOOD. We have a special record. You will be all right. It does not go in the public record. We have this on a secret record which goes into the safes.

General TSCHIRGI. The HAWK is an extremely capable weapon. It has a remarkable accuracy and capability.

Mr. FLOOD. I know. What do the boys in the field think about it? You have been here for a couple of years. Do the boys out in the field like this bird?

General TSCHIRGI. Yes, sir. It will do what it is supposed to do. Mr. FLOOD. I am not talking about LACROSSE any more, then. General TSCHIRGI. I will give full credit to the Army for this development. It is outstanding.

Mr. FLOOD. Who calls this up? Who handles this battalion? Who does it belong to, the commander? Who calls for it? How do you fight this thing?

General TSCHIRGI. I have a schematic drawing.

Mr. FLOOD. Just tell me.

General TSCHIRGI. The HAWK battalion actually must work in conjunction with all the antiair warfare capabilities that a landing force has. It must work with the Navy afloat; it must work with. the Navy airplanes upstairs, it must work with our own Marine airplanes and all, well, with the Navy missiles in the air defense so it requires a great deal of coordination so that you do not shoot down your own airplanes and that you do shoot down the enemy's airplanes. It is a great problem in coordination and direction, not so much as it is a problem of detecting and shooting an airplane.

Mr. FLOOD. Do you lose control of this on the beach? What happens? Here is a battalion of marines. Who do you belong to? General TSCHIRGI. In a beachhead area the HAWK will belong to the tactical commander there and it will not come ashore initially too early in the operation.

Mr. FLOOD. I was interested in HAWK to be sure that advance Marine fighting units can call for support against strafing.

General TSCHIRGI. That is exactly what this weapon is for.

Mr. FLOOD. Who calls it? Suppose some poor marine up in the line has trouble. How does he get this HAWK?

General TSCHIRGI. Your radar reaches out for many miles and it picks up these airplanes coming in. As these airplanes come in, the tactical air control center will sort out which airplanes the HAWK is supposed to shoot at and as the planes get inside range or if they get over the troops we hope to be able to knock them down with the Red Eye.

Mr. FLOOD. We have used this in maneuvers on the theory you discuss now. This is the way it works right now. It looks good. General TSCHIRGI. That is right.

RED EYE

Mr. FLOOD. What about RED EYE for the Marines? Where are we with RED EYE for the Marines as my last weapon for the line? I am up front. When do I get RED EYE? Who handles it? What about it? We have gone beyond HAWK. We are at the end of

the line.

General TSCHIRGI. That is a question that right now we do not have the answer to. It is undergoing study and test by the 1st Marine Division. We do not of course actually have the hardware in our hands but the troop test did use wooden weapons and the same capabilities, or they were given the same capabilities as the regular RED EYE will have.

Mr. FLOOD. Do the Army have any more in their hands this afternoon with troops than you have?

General TSCHIRGI. We don't have any and the Army does not have any. It isn't in production.

Mr. FLOOD. You aren't any worse off than they are?

General TSCHIRGI. No, sir.

Mr. FLOOD. Is the programing of this weapon to give the Marines the same thing the Army has at the same time the Army has it? General TSCHIRGI. Yes, sir.

Mr. FLOOD. Do you believe it?

General TSCHIRGI. We may have to; yes, sir.

Mr. FLOOD. I think your "may have to" days are over. Stick to that. I think you will be all right now. Burn a couple of candles. It won't hurt.

6TH AND 7TH FLEET FORCES

What force do we have at Guantanamo with the 6th and 7th Fleet now, on the secret record? What do you have with the 6th, 7th, and what is with Guantanamo that you had last year and we have this

year.

Colonel MCCABE. I have that information on what we have down there.

Mr. FLOOD. What did you have last year with the 6th, and 7th, and what do you have today at Guantanamo?

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