to our Fleet Marine Forces, our supporting establishment, and our Reserve Forces in the manner we anticipate will provide the most effective utilization and the maximum readiness.

This completes my formal statement. I will be glad to answer any questions on this appropriation request.

JUSTIFICATION OF THE ESTIMATE

Mr. ANDREWS. We shall insert in the Record the justifications (The justifications follow:)

The appropriation “Operation and maintenance, Marine Corps" provides the funds to support all the missions, functions, activities, and facilities of the Marine Corps excluding procurement of major items of equipment, the personnel costs of both the Regular and Reserve Establishment, and those functions supported by Navy sponsored appropriations.

The primary purpose of the funds requested in this appropriation is to support the operating forces with particular emphasis on the Fleet Marine Forces. The objective of the Marine Corps is to train the Fleet Marine Forces and to maintain these forces in a high state of combat readiness for service with the fleet in amphibious operations, or for such other duties as the President may direct. In addition, the Marine Corps, in coordination with the other services will continue to develop the tactics, techniques, and equipment used by landing forces in amphibious operations.

The principal forces supported by this appropriation are two Fleet Marine Forces, composed of the three Marine division/wing teams and necessary supporting units. In addition, funds are provided to support the other operating forces of the Marine Corps: two landing force training units, the Marine detachments afloat, and the security forces provided Navy activities ashore and activities of other Government agencies.

The individual training of officer and enlisted personnel from recruit or basic training to the highest Marine Corps technical or advanced training at the military schools of the other services, or at civilian institutions is also supported by this appropriation. The objective of such schooling is to provide highly trained and disciplined officers and men to the Fleet Marine Forces, capable of effective performance now and growth in the future.

The shore facilities which depend upon this appropriation for budgetary support are: four major unit support bases; two Marine Corps recruit depots; eight Marine Corps air stations (Marine Corps peculiar items only); three major supply activities; one Marine Corps schools command; one oversea training facility at Vieques, P.R.; and the Marine barracks and detachments (partially support of some is derived from Navy appropriations). It is the Commandant's policy that these facilities will be maintained in such condition that they may be effectively utilized; that major costs for replacement in the future may be avoided; that they serve as a means of attracting properly motivated personnel to a service career; and that their operation and maintenance be on an efficient and economical basis.

This appropriation also supports the Marine Corps supply system principally through the supply centers and transportation of things. The principal objective in supply support is to provide the combat forces with equipment and materials in the proper quantities, the prescribed condition, and at the time and the place required.

Funds are also provided in this appropriation for support of Marine Corps Reserve units (less personnel costs) both ground and aviation (Marine Corps peculiar support only), including the funds necessary to support annual field training. The objective is to provide a strong Reserve capable of rapid assimilation into the operating forces when and if required and authorized.

Many other miscellaneous activities receive support from this appropriation. Included are special training expenses, recreation and welfare services, cataloging, recruiting, equipment overhaul and repair, and miscellaneous individual expenses.

The operation of Headquarters, Marine Corps, at the seat of the government is financed under this appropriation. It is the policy of the Commandant to continue to seek economies and management improvements in the operation of this headquarters.

Operation and maintenance, Marine Corps-Summary of comparative obligations [In thousands]

Mr. ANDREWS. Thank you, General. That was a very fine state

ment.

I like the way you described the Marine Corps as being a ready combat force which is particularly skilled in amphibious warfare operations, one ready to go any place at any time and do what is expected of it.

Do you consider the Corps today to be ready to go, so to speak? What is the overall situation?

General TSCHIRGI. Yes, sir. The corps is ready to go and carry out any mission assigned to it.

That is what we are preparing ourselves to do, and what we confidently think we can do.

Mr. FLOOD. You will go if somebody can get you there?

General TSCHIRGI. That is correct.

Mr. ANDREWS. This request is for $179 million for O. & M.

General TSCHIRGI. Yes, sir.

Mr. ANDREWS. How much more is that than the appropriation for 1961?

General TSCHIRGI. $2.3 million, sir.

AMOUNTS REQUIRED TO SUPPORT STRENGTH INCREASES

Mr. ANDREWS. Now, if the strength of the corps were increased from 175,000 officers and men, which is the number upon which this request was predicated, I assume

General TSCHIRGI. Yes, sir.

Mr. ANDREWS. I wish you would put in the record at this point what O. & M. needs would be if the corps were increased to 190,000, and another figure for an increase up to 200,000. You can work that out and put it in the record, unless you have it already worked out. Do you?

General NICKERSON. $4.2 million for the 190,000, and for 200,000, $6 million for "O, & M., Marine Corps."

Mr. ANDREWS. On page 2 you say this money is needed to train, operate, and maintain and support a Marine Corps of three divisions, and partially support three Marine aircraft wings.

NAVY SUPPORT OF MARINE AIR ARM

What do you mean by that statement "and partially support three Marine aircraft wings"?

General TSCHIRGI. The Marine Corps furnishes a portion of the communication electronics equipment for the Marine air wing, particularly the ground line of the communications. It provides some individual weapons, peculiar equipment which the Marine Corps has, such as engineer equipment.

As you understand, I believe, the major portion of the expense of a Marine air wing is the aircraft which it flies.

The Navy provides the aircraft, spare parts, repair, gasoline for the operation, and so forth, so the greater part of the support of the Marine air wing comes from the Bureau of Weapons appropriation of the Navy. We furnish peculiar equipment which only the Marine Corps has.

Mr. FLOOD. What about bodies?

General TSCHIRGI. The Marine Corps of course furnishes the personnel, and we pay the pay, clothing, food, and so forth from our Regular Marine Corps personnel appropriation.

Mr. FLOOD. Mr. Andrews asked you two questions. He took for granted you said you had enough bodies for three divisions, and enough bodies for three air wings. That is not true. O. & M. is bodies

too.

Mr. ANDREWS. O. & M. would not be military bodies, just civilian bodies. All that comes under personnel; is that not right, General? General NICKERSON. Yes, sir.

FILLING OUT OF TABLES OF ORGANIZATION

Mr. FLOOD. He is talking about three divisions and three air wings. He has not got three divisions and three air wings.

General TSCHIRGI. We have three divisions and three air wings organized under our present tables of organization which are not completely filled out.

Mr. FLOOD. You have three divisions and three air wings, such as they are?

General TSCHIRGI. Yes, sir.

Mr. ANDREWS. What is the strength of your air wings, percentagewise?

General TSCHIRGI. I think we would have to furnish that for the record to be accurate.

Mr. ANDREWS. Is any one of the three up to normal strength?
General TSCHIRGI. No, sir.

Mr. ANDREWS. How about your divisions?

General TSCHIRGI. The divisions are approximately 90 percent of their table of organization.

Mr. ANDREWS. If you got in trouble you would beef them up the 10 percent and have them 100 percent; is that right, General? General ALLEN. Yes, sir.

Mr. FLOOD. Where would you get the bodies, from the Reserves? General ALLEN. If that were the order of the day, they would come from the Reserves; or they could be beefed up a considerable amount by those forces that are in the supporting establishments today. Mr. FLOOD. You went pretty far last year to do that. Are you going to reach back further?

Last year you had to scrounge around to pick up a combat landing team.

Where do you have the people hid, out behind the barn someplace? General TSCHIRGI. No, sir. We would get them from our present supporting establishment. Their places would be taken by marines from the Marine Corps Reserve who would come in, and the length of the operation would determine whether or not more Reserves would be called in to take their place. If it is extensive combat, recruiting would have to be stepped up.

Mr. FLOOD. You do not have three full-strength combat divisions and three full-strength air wings?

General TSCHIRGI. That is correct.

ON-BOARD STRENGTH OF MARINE AIR WINGS

Mr. ANDREWS. Your divisions are 90 percent, and you will furnish the figure for the air wings?

General TSCHIRGI. Right.

(The information to be supplied follows :)

The average on-board strength of the three Marine air wings is 78 percent. Mr. ANDREWS. In your summary list of changes on pages 8 and 9 of the justifications there are several items that should be explored a bit further.

FLEET VERSUS COMMERCIAL CARGO SHIPMENT

First, you show a decrease of $300,000 based on greater use of fleet shipping for cargo. Is there any possibility this proposal may be overruled so as to increase the use of commercial carriers? General TSCHIRGI. Yes, sir; there is a possibility.

Mr. ANDREWs. Would you discuss it a little further?

General TSCHIRGI. This decrease is the result of the movement of Marine Corps cargo by the use of Military Sea Transportation Service to and from oversea destinations. In case we have to use commercial cargo rates, the expenses, of course, will go up.

Mr. FLOOD. Do you have the right to select them or does the Navy do your transport?

General TSCHIRGI. We have the right to select what method we move our cargo by.

HOUSING AT PARRIS ISLAND

Mr. ANDREWS. There is a modest reduction related to a decrease in public quarters at Parris Island. Is this a removal of facilities, or does it represent only utilities cost for unoccupied units, or does it forecast a deterioration in structures that may later have to be met as a major repair?

General ALLEN. This reduction is a reduction caused by the tearing down of substandard quarters-housing at that station. Capehart housing has been provided through a Capehart project at the Beaufort Air Station.

Mr. ANDREWs. How far is that from Parris Island?

General ALLEN. About 12 miles.

Mr. ANDREWS. What about your housing situation down there, General?

General ALLEN. We have no real demand for the construction of additional housing at that station at the present time. It will adequately take care of the present workload, considering the factor of the available community support.

Mr. ANDREWS. If the strength of the Marine Corps were increased to 200,000, would that picture be changed at Parris Island? General ALLEN. Not at that station.

Mr. ANDREWS. The increase would be new trainees who would go there without their families. You have adequate facilities there barracks, messhalls, and so forth-to take care of an increase up to 200,000.

General ALLEN. Yes. They would only assume the increase of 25,000, which would be split between east and west, 12,000, and spread over 12 months-1,000 per month.

Mr. ANDREWS. You have adequate facilities for training an additional 25,000 troops?

General ALLEN. That is correct, sir.

Mr. ANDREWS. What about the condition of your housing units at Parris Island?

General ALLEN. These housing units that I mentioned that are being torn down are those inadequate and substandard. There are some 50 or 60 sets of quarters that are being torn down, leaving those that are economically maintainable, where the maintenance cost is economical to continue the use of the housing that is adequate in size for the family.

Mr. ANDREWS. What type of construction are the older houses you are leaving there?

General ALLEN. Very few of those are the wooden structures; most are brick.

Mr. ANDREWS. What about the ones you are tearing down?

General ALLEN. Those are old wooden frame and temporary-type construction built under the title III program back in World War II. Mr. ANDREWS. Have they been occupied until some recent date? How long have they been vacant?

General ALLEN. They have been occupied until recent date.

Mr. ANDREWS. Did you phase the old frame-type World War II houses out as the Capeharts came in?

General ALLEN. That is correct. We started phasing them out at that time.