(The information requested follows:)

Total Navy request for Capehart and Wherry Housing for fiscal

year 1961_.

House reduction__

Senate reduction___.

Total appropriated and allocated___ The $10,394,000 was programed as follows:

$14, 329, 000 2, 117, 000 1,818, 000

10, 394, 000

Mr. COCHRANE. Actually, in 1961 we had an average for Capehart and Wherry as received in the final appropriation of $516 per year. That is the average between the Capehart and Wherry.

Mr. FORD. Instead of the $600 requested?

Mr. COCHRANE. Yes. That was the final figure and the total allocation among the services.

From that 86 percent, or $444 of the $516 had to go into operations; you have utilities, trash and garbage collection. Only $72 per year, or 14 percent, was available for actual, shall we say, structural maintenance, painting, and that type of thing.

Actually, what we are doing is putting off a repair bill unless we pick it up in 1962. That is what we are doing. It is getting older now and it will have to have some recurring maintenance as it goes along.

Mr. FORD. You are receiving in this area for fiscal year 1961 an average of $516 per unit?

Mr. COCHRANE. In Capehart and Wherry.

Mr. FORD. What is in the budget for fiscal year 1962 on a comparable basis?

Admiral PELTIER. $600 for those two this year. We estimate the same operating cost, but we will have $156 for maintenance, or 26 percent.

Mr. FORD. Twenty-six percent for maintenance. How does that relate to what a normal rental property organization would allocate? Admiral PELTIER. At a Fairfax County house that we have investigated, a three-bedroom, two-bath house, they figure a total of $66 per month for maintenance and operation.

Mr. FORD. Maintenance and operation?

Admiral PELTIER. Yes, and ours is running a little less than that. This is $792 a year, and for our Capehart, we are at $663 a year. This is a comparable Capehart house.

Mr. FORD. Has the Navy gone out on its own to make some checks to see how their policy relates to outside management policies?

Admiral PELTIER. Yes, we have, and we have recently issued from the Secretary some directives which require some occupant main

tenance.

Mr. FORD. Is this servicewide from the Defense Department, or is it navy wide?

Admiral PELTIER. There is a directive from the Defense Department. I do not think it is quite as detailed as the one we have. I am not too familiar with that one.

This is one we developed in the Navy that the Secretary and the CNO approved and it will be issued very shortly. Some of our stations are doing that now, even to a greater extent than the directive in some instances.

Mr. FORD. The report prepared by the committee investigators found a number of instances where some of your older Navy appropriated fund housing facilities were terribly expensive as far as maintenance and operation were concerned.

Has the Navy had a chance to verify whether these figures which are included in this report in those instances are accurate? Admiral PELTIER. Yes, sir.

We worked right with this committee at the time they were in the field and I would say in most of those cases they are within the ball park. There is some difference of opinion on areas of cost that had to be allocated, how much should be allocated to this particular part and that particular part.

Mr. FORD. You get rid of ships when they get so old they are not maintainable, cost wise, and it seems to me it would not take very many years of maintaining some of these houses at the figures that are shown in this report to tear them down and build a new house. Admiral PELTIER. That is right.

Mr. FORD. Is that a fair statement?

Admiral PELTIER. That would be a fair estimate, it would be cheaper in some cases.

Our only argument with the housing investigating committee report is that in the public quarters area they used as an example our former rental housing which are now public quarters at San Diego as part of their base; in fact, 85 percent of their figures were based on this type of quarter, which only has about 700 square feet. Our public quarters average at least twice that much, the standard public quarters. They are much larger, and they are not a tract type house that this particular investigation went into, so from that standpoint it did not give the true cost of our public quarters. It is low.

This was not a fair sampling. If you take it on a square foot basis, we would be all right. If we were allowed the money on the basis of square feet, we would be, you might say, "fat."

REDECORATION OF FLAG OFFICER QUARTERS

Mr. FORD. This report also says:

At the Naval Air Station, San Diego, it was pointed out that when the top officers change stations, wihch is about every 18 months, each change requires the expenditure of approximately $1,900 per unit to refurbish the house to please the incoming officer's wife.

Is that a fair appraisal of the facts?

Admiral PELTIER. You do run into that occasionally, but it is surprising sometimes how little is done at some of these houses.

For the last 2 years we have developed a painting scheme with someone we think is a good interior decorator where we are going to

pastel shades. This scheme will probably fit the desires of a larger number of people.

Mr. FORD. You are very optimistic.

Admiral PELTIER. Maybe we will be able to reduce some of that. In those houses where you have had children, certain bedrooms overworked, you will probably have to repaint those. You will repaint the bathroom and the kitchen. There are a few areas you do not repaint.

Mr. FORD. It seems to me if what they say here is accurate, these people are good reliable people, they worked with your people and they must have gotten their records from the people in the Department of the Navy.

Our committee is concerned about the frequency of change of station. Eighteen months is a little frequent in our permanentAdmiral PELTIER. I think this was in the flag area, and that is about 18 months. That is probably normal rotation.

Admiral SYLVESTER. I was one of the subjects of this thing, and I consider I was distinctly gypped. I did not get to spend $1,900.

In general, I think regarding the houses at the Naval Air Station at North Island, three had been flag headquarters and the remainder captain quarters of this particular group and they were all changed into flag quarters at the time, and I believe for that reason the expenses probably were somewhat higher than would have been the case in the normal rotation of officers of the same rank.

Mr. FORD. It was a change in concept?

Admiral SYLVESTER. Yes, a change in concept of these particular quarters.

The Chief of Naval Operations decided that certain of the type commanders should be given quarters ashore and the captains who had been in comparable houses were put in other smaller quarters on the base.

Mr. FORD. I am not particularly concerned about this specific instance, but I think the investigators and the committee are concerned as to whether or not an officer moving into such quarters without any control has the right to incur these kinds of expenses. Is there a rule, a regulation, or any control?

Admiral PELTIER. There is.

Mr. FORD. What is it?

Admiral PELTIER. In the normal procedure we have an inspector that goes out. When an occupant leaves, he goes out and makes a check throughout the quarters. In fact, in our tract housing area, we have this systematized, where not only do we have it on a form with all the copies necessary, but we have the amount of time it takes to do the particular job-repaint the bedroom, this, that or the other. Those things are checked, sent to the shop. The work is accomplished, and that is where we try to get these people back in the house, getting it drawing money in much less time.

In the areas of the senior officers, certainly for the commanding officer of the station you probably will not do it quite that fast. You would have to do a little consultation. But most generally, it is pretty well controlled in that area.

Mr. FORD. Does anybody on a station have any authority, real or otherwise, to put a check on some individual wanting to go in and do the whole job?

It would seem to me somebody with higher authority than the commanding officer at the particular station ought to have some control. Somebody from your office is not going to tell the CO that he is going to spend $500 too much on redecorating the boss' quarters.

Admiral PELTIER. You also have a structural allowance. There is only so much they can spend on these quarters.

Mr. FORD. Do they get a new allowance every time there is a new CO?

Admiral PELTIER. There is a new allowance every year. It is an annual allowance. It is cumulative. If you have a change of occupancy, you get a 25 percent increase. It does keep it from running away, and they cannot exceed that allowance without coming to Washington and getting it approved for that particular house.

Mr. OSTERTAG. Right on that point, I assume from Admiral Sylvester's report and statement with regard to modernization, improvements and controls, that in your field of engineering, particularly in housing, you now have greater uniformity, greater controls and standardization.

Would not this whole question fall into the matter of a standard practice that would extend throughout the whole service?

Admiral PELTIER. Throughout the Navy. This has only been centralized for about 8 months. We are just starting to get this complete simplification, and all the things that probably will be done, have not been done yet in this area. We are working on it.

Mr. OSTERTAG. The whole question of refurbishing a housing unit certainly would be a matter of uniformity rather than the whims and desires of some of the people.

Admiral PELTIER. Yes, but you do have the money limitation, and with $600 a year-and 75 percent is going into operations you have to pay the water bill, the light bill, the fuel bill, you have to collect the trash, you have to do the ground maintenance, so you do not have too much left to do all this fancy painting you might think could be done. There is not too much money left. These appropriations are separated and segregated, and it has to stay within that money limit. Mr. SIKES. Any further questions.

Thank you very much.

THURSDAY, MARCH 9, 1961.

GENERAL EXPENSES, NAVY PERSONNEL

WITNESSES

VICE ADM. W. R. SMEDBERG III, USN, DEPUTY CHIEF OF NAVAL OPERATIONS (PERSONNEL AND NAVAL RESERVE) AND CHIEF OF NAVAL PERSONNEL

A. P. KENYON, ASSISTANT FOR PLANS AND COORDINATION, TRAINING DIVISION, BUREAU OF NAVAL PERSONNEL

Mr. SIKES. We will now take up "General expenses, Navy personnel."

We will hear Admiral Smedberg.

GENERAL STATEMENT

Admiral SMEDBERG. Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, my responsibility is to present the financial requirements for the operation and maintenance programs of the Bureau of Naval Personnel, under the major activity 1: General expenses, Navy personnel. These programs include such important functions as recruitment and procurement of all naval personnel and their basic and advance training, except air and medical; the administration for distribution of trained manpower to: Forces afloat, Shore Establishment, and special duties; and the administration of the personnel promotion, discipline, and welfare programs.

Our requirements for these programs in fiscal year 1962 total $94,460,000 or only 3.6 percent of the total budget for "Operation and maintenance, Navy." This sum will provide for the recruiting and training of some 105,600 new enlistees, advance training for 67,000 enlisted personnel and 8,200 officers, group or team training and refresher courses for 272,000 officers and enlisted personnel, operation and maintenance of facilities for the training drills for some 124,300 members of the Naval Reserve, and officer candidate training for 3,775 midshipment at the Naval Academy and 13,000 in the Naval Reserve Officers' Training Corps and Reserve officer candidate programs. In addition, it will provide for administration of our complex personnel programs including personnel accounting, other personnel programs, and the maintenance of the required physical facilities.

INCREASE

The increase in the estimate of $2,481,000 is attributable, in the main, to accelerated training in scientific and technical fields. The Navy enlisted scientific education program, nuclear power and POLARIS training, and postgraduate education are the critical areas being expanded. Other increases include augmentation of the civilian staff and outfitting of a brigade library at the Naval Academy, in keeping with recently approved revisions in the curriculum. It includes additional supplies and materials for maintenance and collateral equipment for new construction at the Academy as well as other facilities. Provision is made for improved equity in reimbursing personnel for expenses while on shore patrol.

TRAINING

The educational training ranges from basic instruction of the new recruits to advanced education of the career officers. Emphasis is on technical knowledge and skills, amphibious and antisubmarine warfare, antiair warfare, nuclear propulsion and weapons, guided missiles, and electronic devices. Postgraduate education is provided as needed in the fields of science, mathematics, and management. Courses are tailored to supply the needs of the Navy for leadership, professional direction, and administration.

To strengthen the officer corps in the scientific and engineering fields, and to supplement the output of the Naval Academy and the various officer candidate programs, an additional input of approximately 200 enlisted personnel is planned for the Navy enlisted scien