CONSOLIDATION OF COMMUNICATIONS ACTIVITIES Mr. OSTERTAG. Admiral, I have a feeling that one of the great weaknesses in our defense throughout the world has been that of communications. There have been some spots and circumstances which have, I am sure, given everyone cause for concern. Now, the establishment of this Defense Communications Agency, which you head, sounds reasonable, practicable, and desirable. I believe that it serves a very necessary and useful function and purpose. It is a bit confusing, however, as to whether you are a control agency and a coordinating agency over and above what already existed. Do you hold out that you will actually save money and that there will be less cost and expense and personnel, generally speaking, by virtue of your operation of this control center? Admiral IRVIN. Yes, sir; I feel very strongly on both those scores. Such an approach as this will not only save money, but it will save personnel as well. I repeat, as I stated to the chairman, sir; there is a terrific capability in the plant in being in the three services. If we do no more than capitalize on that, we will make a tremendous saving. Mr. OSTERTAG. I have been concerned about that very point, and I am wondering if you are prepared at this time to give an evaluation of your agency's responsibility, looking to the future, in order to advance the consolidation of communications activities to the maximum extent feasible. I am referring to the consolidation of communications activities. Admiral IRVIN. Colonel Paulson pointed out one area, sir, where the Department of Defense has already started and we see a clear line that we will be definitely part and parcel of this examination of the savings which will be effected by this new FCC tariff on Telepac. These are the kinds of things which I believe are going to effect and bring about considerable economies and saving that will be material. Mr. OSTERTAG. In our operations by the services in other parts of the world is it not true that there has been absolute duplication and a lack of coordination as between the services and communications? Admiral IRVIN. I think, sir, it will be found in a great many of these that military requirements, being from time to time of an oscillating nature, there is always a tendency to build and satisfy the maximum requirement. Mr. OSTERTAG. You are a Defense Department agency, you are not an individual, single service agency; you are a supercommunications control agency. As I understand it, you have jurisdiction over all the communications systems now. Admiral IRVIN. The long-haul systems, sir. Mr. OSTERTAG. Long haul, or any way you desire to describe it. Would a part of your function be to effect consolidations, assuming you will study your whole system? Admiral IRVIN. Yes, sir. That is particularly germane to the directives issued to us, sir. Mr. OSTERTAG. That is what I thought. Of course, you have not done that as yet. Admiral IRVIN. In the directive establishing the agency, if I may read the DOD directive, under the heading of "Authorities" we are— to carry out assigned responsibilities and functions of the agency, the Chief of the Defense Communications Agency is "specifically delegated" authority to direct the consolidation or elimination of DCS facilities and operations in order to achieve maximum efficiency, economy, and effectiveness. Mr. OSTERTAG. That is a part of the directive and part of your responsibility; is that right? Admiral IRVIN. Yes, sir. Mr. OSTERTAG. But, of course, being new, you have not as yet developed those aspects to the point where you could actually effect these efficiencies and these economies; is that right? Admiral IRVIN. Not in this time frame, sir. We have, of course, been undergoing an era of organization of our own headquarters staff, control center, and complex. Mr. OSTERTAG. Do you have control with regard to the loading of circuits and channel priorities and such responsibilities? Admiral IRVIN. We do with respect to loading, sir. The priorities are established by the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and we execute this loading in accordance with those established priorities. Mr. OSTERTAG. You act for the Joint Chiefs of Staff? Admiral IRVIN. With respect to allocations of channels, yes, sir; priorities are established by the Joint Chiefs of Staff and by the unified and specified commanders. DEGREE OF CONTROL OVER COMMUNICATIONS Mr. OSTERTAG. Mr. Flood mentioned Port Lyautey. I visited Port Lyautey not too long ago. Of course, we have a situation in that part of the world as it applies to communications. Is it the authority of your Agency to regulate and control the immediate plans of the services for the construction and operation of facilities, in such areas as Spain and the Mediterranean area? Admiral IRVIN. These, sir, are the functions of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the Secretary of Defense, specifically the Office of Installations and Logistics. There is a recently developed pattern that the Office of Installations and Logistics refers to DCA for analysis, evaluation, and recommendation; plans initiated by the services. Mr. OSTERTAG. You are answerable to the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the Secretary of Defense; is that right? Admiral IRVIN. We are answerable to the through the Joint Chiefs of Staff, sir. Secretary of Defense Mr. OSTERTAG. Through the Joint Chiefs. But you mentioned that certain of these functions remain with the Joint Chiefs of Staff. Do you act for the Joint Chiefs of Staff in these matters? Admiral IRVIN. No, sir. What I meant by the functions of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the military communications requirements are in the province of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. The satisfaction of them and approval of program objectives are the province of the Department of Defense. I previously indicated that we have already been called in by the Department of Defense, specifically the Office of Installations and Logistics for analysis evaluation and recommendations on these program objectives. Mr. OSTERTAG. There is the problem of certain programs dealing with the plans of the services for construction of facilities in certain parts of the world. It would seem to me that you people would have certain relationships to such plans, programs, and functions. Admiral IRVIN. This is already established, sir. The approval of these programs on the part of a department, the approval of the program is a function of the Department of Defense, specifically in the Office of the Assistance Secretary of Defense for Installations and Logistics. We have already been called in on these programs. SECURITY PROBLEM IN OVERSEA COMMUNICATION CENTERS Mr. OSTERTAG. Admiral, I was disturbed some time ago with a situation that developed or seemed to exist in the Orlean or Com Z area of Army communications with regard to the employment of civilian personnel. Disturbances of one kind or another have taken place to put the communications system out of business. Of course, that deals with more or less telephone communications. Perhaps the general would comment on that. Does that tie in with your controls, and what is the situation? General SAMPSON. I would like to say this off the record, sir. (Discussion off the record.) Mr. OSTERTAG. Admiral, with regard to your personnel, you gave us a breakdown of your costs and the numbers of civilian personnel in your establishment as well as the military. Are the military people on your payroll or are they compensated through regular services? Admiral IRVIN. They remain a service charge. Mr. OSTERTAG. In other words, the services rendered by the military are not reflected in your budget? Admiral IRVIN. No, sir. Mr. OSTERTAG. That is all. DCA CONTROL OVER RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT Mr. ANDREWS. With reference to your research projects, do you clear them with Dr. York or does he have any jurisdiction over the research work you do in your Department? Admiral IRVIN. Yes, sir, he has complete control over them. Mr. ANDREWS. Before you initiate a new project, you clear it with him? Admiral IRVIN. Yes, sir; the projects are cleared not only with Dr. York but additionally have to be cleared with the Joint Chiefs as well. Mr. ANDREWS. What about reviewing the individual services' R. & D. programs? Do you have any jurisdiction over that? Admiral IRVIN. Yes, sir; I cited three specific charges we have in this area. We are required to coordinate the communication research and development programs of the military departments which are applicable to the defense communications system. That is in respect to the long haul communications. We are, of course, not in the business of reviewing or evaluating the research and development of the services which are not related to this area. That is, research and development that is aimed at the tactical applications for which we have no responsibility and no interest. Mr. ANDREWS. That is the hardware Mr. Flood was speaking of? Admiral IRVIN. Yes; that is not our province and, of course, we are not assigned that responsibility. Mr. ANDREWS. Do you want to make a statement on that, Captain? Captain PHELPS. We are responsible for reviewing the hardware research and development programs of the military departments applicable to the Defense Communications System. Admiral IRVIN. As I say, sir, which are applicable to long haul communications. Such research and development as relates itself to the tactical application down in the troops or in the ship's equipment, we are not concerned with that. Mr. OSTERTAG. How do you differentiate between the long haul communications and other communications when it comes to research? Admiral IRVIN. We are charged with the responsibility for the long haul point-to-point communications of the Department of Defense. We are not charged with the responsibility for the tactical communications within the fighting command. Mr. OSTERTAG. I had in mind that when it comes to the question of developing or going into the unknown of research, how do you actually separate long from short? Admiral IRVIN. I think, sir, the directives themselves do quite a job of differentiating. To be specific, sir, we are not responsible, nor do we have any part of the province of tactical communications, which are self-contained within tactical organizations. We are not responsible for self-contained information gathering, transmitting, or processing facilities which are normally local in operation or use. We are not responsible for such things as airborne systems or shipborne systems. These are, of course, in the area of the tactical command. Anything that is long haul, this is the treatment of the global concept of communications, this is our province and I think it falls rather easily, sir, into categories applicable from a research and development viewpoint or it is not applicable. Mr. ANDREWS. I think you have a very fertile field in which to work and I hope next year or the year after you come up and tell us you have saved money. Admiral IRVIN. It is an unfortunate thing, but before we can save money we have to have money to get started. Mr. ANDREWS. All right, Admiral, thank you very much. The committee is adjourned until 10 o'clock. |