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What are the functions of the Signal Air Defense Engineering Agency shown at a cost of $1.1 million? I refer you to page 25.

General DUFF. Sir, the commanding general of the Army Air Defense Command, which is located at Colorado Springs, is responsible for training and equipping combat ready Army Air Defense units and then providing them to the North American Air Defense commander under his operational control and for operational employment. These forces include certain Reserve components and are employed for the air defense of certain designated localities throughout the United States. By this I exclude the State of Alaska. There are such units employed in Hawaii but not in the State of Alaska.

However, there are units deployed in Alaska which are under the command of the North American Defense commander, but not under the Army Air Defense Command. In addition, the Army Air Defense Command functions by advising as to the optimum employment of U.S. Army Air Defense Command forces, keeping the commander in chief of the North American Air Defense Command informed of the tactical and logistical status of all Army Air Defense Command units, coordinating activities of the Department of the Army agencies in support of the Army Air Defense Command and implementing Army Air Defense Command responsibilities through regional and unit commanders. An agency of this command is the Army Signal Air Defense Engineering Agency. This Agency is responsible for the development, engineering, and maintenance of telecommunication and electronics communications and systems in support of the U.S. Army air defense system. This includes, sir, expenses that are primarily due to the installation of ground electronic equipment at 18 sites which will permit effective battle application of Army-provided missiles and local North American Air Defense direction and supervision of fire unit actions. This equipment is occasionally referred to as the battery integration and radar display equipment and it will be part of the semi-automatic ground environment system, the SAGE system, which is under the overall direction of the Air Defense commander, sir, and it will be deployed at sites at which you have more than one fire unit, at which there are at least two fire units in the larger of the air defenses. As you know, sir, for the 10 largest defenses, we have the Missile Master equipment, so this is for the larger defenses where we do not have the Missile Master equipment.


Mr. Flood. To what extent, if any, and if so, how many hundreds of millions of dollars do we have with Western Electric contracts to do any part of this? I just cannot believe that Western Electric is going to let a round, fat, juicy plum like this long-haired hardware get away from its board of directors somehow.

General DUFF. Sir, I will ask Colonel Joslin from the Office of the Chief Signal Officer to respond to that question.

Colonel Joslin. I am not connected with the Army Signal Air Defense Engineering Agency you mentioned, but I will get that information for you.

(The information is as follows:)

CONTRACT FOR BATTERY INTEGRATION RADAR DISPLAY EQUIPMENT Western Electric has no contracts for the production of the battery integration radar display equipment. Martin Co., Orlando, Fla., is the prime contractor.

Mr. FLOOD. I thought you were going to say Western Electric. That is good. There is nobody here then who is going to try to answer that question. You see, what I am concerned about, I just heard about an IBM machine in another committee that I am on. These IBM machines are down in the Virgin Islands. We have just paid $150,000 rental for them. I find out that nobody in the Virgin Íslands, of course, knows how to run an IBM machine. They do not know, yet. I wanted to know why they were paying $150,000 rental to IBM if nobody in the islands could run the silly hardware. I should not have asked that because they are not even out of the crates. Knowing Western Electric as we do on this subcommittee, from the North Pole down, and you know what I mean, I would like to know to what extent, if any, are they in this and if they are not in it, I am sorry I brought it up to their attention because they will be.

General Duff. I do not believe, sir, they are as far as the Army is concerned. I do know

Mr. Mahon. That is an adequate answer.
If you want to extend it for the record, you may do so.

How do these functions, that is, the functions of the Signal Air Defense Engineering Agency, relate to the air defense functions of the Air Force and to the Defense Communications Agency?

General DUFF. They are all tied in, sir, under the SAGE system and as far as the comparable Air Force air defense mission is concerned, it is performed by contract with the Western Electric Defense Engineering Service, a private company which performs the engineering function of the SAGE program and the Ground Equipment and Engineering Installation Agency, which is the procurement agency for the U.S. Air Force. These are the related Air Force supported activities, sir.

Mr. Flood. Are you going to put all of this stuff underground!

General Duff. Sir, the hardened SAGE centers, if this is what you refer to, sir, those were disapproved as you know.

Mr. Flood. Haven't they been suddenly revived ?
General DUFF. If they have, sir, I am not aware of it.
Mr. Flood. You are not aware of that?
General DUFF. I am not aware of that, sir.
Mr. Flood. What big ears you don't have.


Mr. Mahon. On page 207, under facilities mobilization planning, it is described as concerned withexpansion plans for selected nonindustrial installations having a planned re quirement for new construction in the event of mobilization.

To what nonindustrial facilities does this refer, General !

General DUFF. Sir, this facilities mobilization planning includes preparation of site and topographic surveys and advance plans for the expansion of selected installations and the construction of new

installations necessary to support the requirements that are indicated in the stationing plan annex of the Department of the Army mobilization installation program. This activity is collateral to and it ties in very closely with the master planning function at the installation level. This planning does not include preparation of detailed plans or drawings but is an effort to complete the preliminary work such as topographic surveys, site location of the structures and utilities on master overlays, and the preparation of narrative descriptions of the new structures prior to mobilization.

Mr. FLOOD. I have before one of my Subcommittees on Commerce an agency in Commerce which is engaged in doing exactly this kind of thing, with existing industrial and commercial installations. Is this a duplication or what is it?

General DUFF. No, sir. This is not duplication because this is for Army installations only, sir, and

Mr. FLOOD. Not the general industrial complex?

General DUFF. No, sir; for Army-owned or Army-supervised installations.

Mr. Flood. Are any of them under contract?
General DUFF. I do not believe it is by management contract, sir.

Mr. MAHON. I do not believe you have answered my question. To what nonindustrial facilities does this refer?

Colonel TOLLIVER. These are posts, camps, and stations which must be enlarged considerably in the event of mobilization.

Mr. MAHON. Could you give me a possible example?

Colonel TOLLIVER. I can give you a hypothetical example of a station which currently houses 10,000 troops, which under mobilization would have a mission to house 50,000 or 100,000 troops. This money plans where the tent camp would be laid out, how they would get water to it, that sort of general planning so that in the event of mobilization we could proceed to expand that camp with minimum delay.

Mr. Mahon. What is the planned duration of the mobilization period!

General Duff. Sir, I do not believe that this is related to a specific planned duration. It is related rather to a certain sized force. In other words, the expansion of the Army to a certain augmented strength over the normal strength that is available to the Army at the present time.

Mr. Mahon. The estimated duration would have a significant bearing upon the nature of the construction, would it not?

General DUFF. This is correct, sir, and while I am not familiar with the details of this specific plan, I believe that it would relate to planning for alternative conditions, sir. Therefore, as far as any particular facility is concerned, there would be a number of alternatives, One could be for a conflict of relatively short duration and others for conflicts of more extended duration.

Mr. MINSHALL. If the chairman will yield, for how many plants do you have this projection?

General DUFF. I believe, sir, that this would relate to all of the installations that are under the jurisdiction of the Army--those installations that are currently listed as either being used by the Active Forces or being held as an asset against our mobilization requirement.

67438-61-pt. 2-12

Mr. MINSHALL. Do I understand you correctly, these plans are for plants that are not even in being ?

General DUFF. No, sir. As was stated to the chairman, this is not generally related to our industrial facilities but rather to our posts, camps, and stations.

Mr. Mahon. Is this planning consistent with the mobilization planning of the Navy and of the Air Force?

General DUFF. I believe it is consistent with such plans, sir, because it is the Army-derived portion of jointly approved mobilization plans.


Mr. Mahon. It has been said that the increase in 1961 in supply control studies, as shown on page 212, is based on a fiscal year 1961-62 logistics guidance, which required computations under new concepts for both general war and limited war. Can you describe these new concepts and how you are changing or relating your program to these concepts?

General DUFF. Sir, the basic logistics guidance under which all of our logistic programs in support of the fiscal year 1962 budget are based is the fiscal year 1961–62 logistics guidance issued by the Office of the Secretary of Defense. Under this guidance there are certain cyclical supply control studies which increased in fiscal year 1961 and required changes in acquisition and retention levels of stocks. These changes in acquisition and retention levels of our supplies greatly increased the complexity of our computation and they required certain studies to be updated as a result. These studies, sir, set certain acquisition levels based upon a certain force, and support of this force in combat. In addition, in order to provide assets for mobilization requirements, certain higher levels are prescribed in some cases for items that we have on hand that are in excess of the acquisition level but should be retained as an asset against mobilization requirements.

The number of special supply control studies has also been increased as a result of this fiscal year 1961-62 logistic guidance.

Special studies outnumber the cyclical studies on a 4 to 1 basis because there are additional functions necessary for the management of supplies other than the performance of the control studies and they are accounted for under these special studies. A few of these additional functions, sir, are studies triggered off out of cycle, studies for the Army programing and planning, studies for both peacetime and mobilization, provisioning actions, supply control reviews, supply control comparisons, budgetary studies, FIA quarterly balances, and MAP studies.

There is no relationship, sir, maintained between the cyclical studies and the special studies in terms of dollars and manpower. The time consumed for each of the actions taken or completed varies from a few minutes to several days.

What I am trying to point out, sir, is the relationship between the 1.5 million now estimated as the required number of these control studies as compared with the original estimate of 1.2 million studies.


Mr. Mahon. Is there any relationship to the stock fund involved in this testimony you are giving here?

What impact, if any, does this have on the retention of levels in the stock fund?

General DUFF. Sir, this would include all items, whether these items are provided by direct issue to the troops which would use them or whether they are provided by purchase from the stock fund, so this would cover all items, sir, whether they are stock-funded items or whether they are direct-issue items.

Mr. MAHON. Are declines in mobilization reserve stock levels offset by increases in so-called economic and contingency retention levels? Colonel TOLLIVER. Our mobilization reserves in the stock funds, sir?

Our mobilization reserve in the stock fund is short some $800 million, if I am being responsive to your question. We anticipate that the stock fund will in future years generate enough cash to permit us to make up this deficiency at an acceptable rate.

Mr. MAHON. What do you mean by economic and contingency retention levels?

Colonel TOLLIVER. The economic retention limit is the point beyond which it is more advantageous to the Government to dispose of an item as excess than to keep it. In other words, it is the point at which the cost of storage to the time of issue or anticipated time of issue, is greater than the cost of the item.

Mr. Flood. Mr. Chairman, the chairman's question was restrictive, of course, and you answered it on that basis, to a discussion of the costs—a million dollars plus—of systems and methods.

General DUFF. Yes, sir.

Mr. Flood. What has that system and method produced? Are we going to know what you did?

General DUFF. Yes, sir. Mr. Flood. You are talking about the application, a million dollars plus it is going to cost you to apply a method and a system to two channels, limited war and general war. That is what the methods and system is going to work on. That is what he is interested in. What I am interested in is what did you do, and at what point do I hear about that?

General Durr. Mr. Flood, with regard to the 1.2 million, sir, this was number of studies, rather than the cost of making these studies.

Mr. Flood. That is methods and systems. That is all right. We have to know about that, too. We have to pay for it. What do I find out about the other end of the horn?

What did you give birth to here?

General DUFF. Sir, this is the whole basis of the material that will be presented as the background material for the “Procurement of equipment and missiles, Army” appropriation. What I mean to say is, sir, that for the number of M-14 rifles or the number of M-60 tanks

Mr. Flood. I know that. I want to know at what point in these hearings do I find out from you or procurement as to what the planning is? I am interested in the planning after this happens.

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