Mr. FORD. What are you using for money to continue to buy the tanker? I presume it is because you have a military need for the tanker.

General FRIEDMAN. That money we would hope will be replaced in terms of additional new obligating authority for 17 additional aircraft increasing the total to 89 aircraft in the 1962 budget.

Mr. FORD. How much is in the budget for 1962 for KC-135's for tanker purposes?

General FRIEDMAN. For tanker purposes, it is $185.7 million. Mr. FORD. To buy how many KC-135's for tanker purposes? General FRIEDMAN. Seventy-two. That is what is in the current budget.

Mr. FORD. For 1962?

General FRIEDMAN. That is right, sir. We will ask for 17 more aircraft.

Mr. FORD. To replace those?

General FRIEDMAN. To replace those which were diverted to the C-135 requirement. That will be $44.3 million.

Mr. FORD. Did General Power look with favor on this diversion of tanker money?

General FRIEDMAN. I have not discussed it with him. I do not think he would be totally enthusiastic with any diversion of these aircraft.

Mr. FORD. It means he has to use KC-97's for a longer period of time?

General FRIEDMAN. For a relatively short period of time. As I recall, we get back on schedule along about April 1963. In other words, we are back on the total schedule.

Mr. FLOOD. I will bet they had to take Power down off the chandelier when he saw that one.

KC-135 AIRCRAFT PRODUCTION LINE

Mr. FORD. Is there any effort to increase the production line right now of KC-135's or C-135's to make up this deficit from SAC's point of view?

General FRIEDMAN. To the extent of procurement of 17 in the 1962 buy: In other words, rather than running at a level of 6 per month, I think what we will have to do is 71⁄2 per month, 7 and 8, and 7 and 8. Mr. FORD. During the interval between February 1 of 1961 and July 1 of 1961, there is no increase in the KC-135 production to meet military needs that General Power felt he needed for SAC? General FRIEDMAN. That is correct.

Mr. FORD. Are any of these C-135's that are now on order, and that will start being delivered June 1, to be assigned to administrative or special mission aircraft?

General KELLY. No, sir.

Mr. FLOOD. What about the C-130E's?

General KELLY. No, sir.

Mr. FORD. These are strictly to go to General Kelly's MATS operation for troop movements, including rotation, cargo, and air evacuation?

General KELLY. Yes, sir.

Mr. FLOOD. The reason you are not going to use the 135's is the configuration of that deck will not let anybody use it because it is no good for that. We are lucky there.

Mr. FORD. General Kelly, you mentioned this morning the cancellation of your Blue Plate

ADMINISTRATIVE AIRCRAFT

Mr. FLOOD. Mr. Ford, would you yield a minute on that, please. You told me, General Friedman, you would not use them for administrative and special missions, but I have this here from the Secretary. It is broken down in two columns. It shows administrative and special missions. I beg your pardon for not showing you this this morning. I should have gotten copies of it. This is what he sent me. Here is administrative and special mission, four-engine and two-engine. Here on the left of this column is a whole line of strange operations that are crawling with hundreds of four-engine and two-engine aircraft. Here is Air Defense Command, Air Materiel Command. Here is the Air Materiel Command with 114 four-engine planes and 384 twoengine planes. Air R. & D. has 65 four-engine planes, 105 two-engine planes. Air Training Command, Air University, 41 two-engine planes in the Air University, whatever that is. You have some in the Alaskan Air Command.

In other words, are these C-130's and C-130E's and the 135'sare you going to hide them out in any of these trick commands?

General FRIEDMAN. I have said before and I will assure you that these particular aircraft will not be assigned to any other commands except the Tactical Air Command and to MATS and, further, that they will be used specifically for combat or strategic lift purposes in

the instance of MATS.

Mr. FLOOD. Here I have a total inventory of 3,704 aircraft; fourengine, 1,274; two-engine, 2,430. That is the breakdown.

Of those groups, of the total of 3,704, MATS has 684. Of the four-engine planes MATS has 575. Of the two-engine planes MATS has 109. The Strategic Air Command, the total is 272, broken down into 100 four-engine, and 172 two-engine planes.

TAC has 279 total, broken down to 121 four-engine planes and 176 two-engine planes. I added all those up-MATS, TAC, and SAC. Subtract that from 3,704, and my mustache stands right up straight in the air. You see what my trouble is? The rest of that stuff is not industrial funded.

General FRIEDMAN. Yes, sir; that is true. Some of those, of course, are in mission support category, which General Agee spoke to. Some of the aircraft, for instance, for the Air Research and Development Command are test bed aircraft for which they have a considerable requirement.

As a matter of fact, General Kelly and I were looking at the detail of some of the aircraft here in the Air Research and Development Command, and he pointed out one of these is used in the-you tell them.

General KELLY. Frequency interference modulation. It is full of equipment and gear to see that a spurious signal does not set off a missile.

Mr. FLOOD. That is one out of 2,200 pigeons that are not industrial funded, we do not know who is flying them, nobody is paying for it. This is great.

AIRLIFT TO LAOS

Mr. FORD. In response to a question by, I believe, Mr. Sikes this morning, you discussed and described how quickly you could get a sizable force moved if you were told to do so today or tomorrow or next week. You indicated that it could be accomplished with equip

ment.

General KELLY. That is with our own equipment. That is correct. Mr. FORD. These C-135's which have now been placed on order, the first of which is due for delivery June 1, will not between now and a year from now really add much to that capability, will it?

General KELLY. No, they will not, not until we get them shaken down.

As I stated this morning, those airplanes will carry troops and light equipment. They will actually carry 53 percent of the Army's requirement because of cubage or size or weight. So we will still have to use the C-133's until we get the C-130E's, C-124's, and everything to go along behind.

Mr. FORD. If you were called upon to move troops, U.S. forces, to Laos, you would not transport battle groups from the United States for that purpose, would you?

General KELLY. We have a contingency plan, as we were talking about this morning, with Admiral Felt, which we have worked out for all of the transportation.

(Discussion off the record.)

Mr. FORD. If you had the C-135's today, you would not use those for the purpose of moving troops from Okinawa or from Japan to Laos, would you, General Kelly?

General KELLY. No. You might in certain situations, but as a general plan, you would not because you would want the equipment and everything to go with them. You might in reenforcing something take those and take them nonstop from Okinawa into where you were staging and getting equipment together.

Mr. FORD. You would not normally station C-135's out there for this kind of operation?

General KELLY. Not at this stage of the game.

CANCELLATION OF ATLANTIC EXPRESS

Mr. FORD. You mentioned this morning, General Kelly, cancellation of your blue plate special flights. What does that entail, how many flights were you carrying on?

General KELLY. Three round trips a week that have been running from Andrews to Rhein-Main. These are with C-118 aircraft. They have been primarily for temporary duty, for congressional investigators, for rapid movement on a temporary duty basis. It is three round trips a week. We are replacing that with a Category A ticketed out of Friendship. Instead of riding with us, they will ride with Pan Am.

Mr. FLOOD. In fairness to Congress, the congressional investigators, three flights a week for 52 weeks out of the year-you have not been cluttering up those aircraft with congressional investigators, have you?

General KELLY. No, we do not clutter them up.

Mr. FLOOD. A lot of other traffic goes on?

General KELLY. A lot of other traffic goes on-Army, Navy, Air Force.

Mr. FLOOD. Three flights a week?

General KELLY. Some State Department.

Mr. FORD. What will those C-118 aircraft be used for?

General KELLY. I have been told I would be given disposition of them, but I will not retain them. I do not know.

Mr. FORD. You actually have not yet canceled the flights?
General KELLY. Not until April 1.

Mr. FORD. How many aircraft were involved in this operation generally?

General KELLY. We have eight of these aircraft that are involved. We also run a Pacific express. There is a total of five on the East Coast and three on the West Coast. These will be phased out.

Mr. FORD. Those aircraft will be available for your MATS operation and will be in a more ready status, will they, for any airlift responsibilities that might be placed on them?

General KELLY. I do not know exactly what the plan is for utilization. I hope I can keep them and have them in my ready force. Mr. FORD. These will be the same kind of aircraft that were used in Operation Long Pass?

General KELLY. No; these are somewhat differently modified. It is not any job to remodify. It is just reconfiguring. The seats are on a grid. You can make them close together or wider apart. Actually, there are about 40 inches between seats on this flight, and you carry a fewer number than with troops where we move the seats closer together.

Mr. FORD. According to Colonel Alderson's statement, in fiscal 1961 you had a total of 96 C-118's, and as of April 1 you will free 8 out of that total, which is approximately 10 percent of your C-118's in inventory. I should think that would be some addition on an immediate basis for the augmentation of your troop carrying capability.

General KELLY. In the pure passenger field for troops and in our war plans we are not in bad shape. It is in the cargo field that we have the deficit.

Mr. FORD. And yet I thought the C-135's were to go to the troop carrying.

General KELLY. Yes, they will, and the C-118's will go out of my inventory as I get these.

Mr. FORD. I thought you just said this was not the area where you were in greatest difficulty.

General KELLY. It is not in the total requirement, but for speed and fast reaction it is one of my most critical.

NEGOTIATED VERSUS COMPETITIVE BIDDING

Mr. FORD. In the fiscal 1961 Department of Defense appropriation bill, on page 18, this committee made some comments about the airlift. I will read part of it:

It is unfortunate for the state of readiness of our commercial carriers that the Air Force has seen fit in the past to allow open competitive bidding to include some irresponsible operators offering aircraft of dubious safety and reliability. It is entirely within the purview of the Air Force and the statutes are adequate to insist upon minimum standards of responsibility, safety, and performance, which would tend to strengthen the industry rather than encourage disruptive and ruinous economic practices.

If I heard your testimony correctly, this morning, I do not believe you would agree with that.

General KELLY. I think I would, sir. I said that I would not like. to go back to competitive bidding, and I qualified that that I would not like to go back where we had this complete open-ended, where we used to have the bidders' list of, I think, 80-plus bidders. We had to go out and investigate every one of those, check their airplanes, investigate their financial responsibility. If one of them put the low bid in, we had to accept it if he was financially responsible and had a safe airplane.

Mr. FORD. The new practices of the Air Force have eliminated that or has the new regulation of the CAB eliminated that threat?

General KELLY. No. When you put in your legislation last year restricting us to members of CRAF, that in itself eliminated a great number of these. It eliminated the unsafe airplane that you were talking about. To be a member of CRAF, as we discussed this morning, although we are not aware of the exact location of the airplane, it is a certified airplane that has been modified to conform to our standards and is the airplane that we want to use in our business.

So, I think the language that you put in did more to help us in this than anything else that has happened in the past year.

Mr. FORD. If we have a limitation or restriction in the fiscal year 1962 bill in this area, you would certainly endorse at least the inclusion of that language?

CRAF RESPONSIVENESS LEGISLATION

General KELLY. I would endorse the inclusion that only members of CRAF be eligible for MATS business; I certainly would.

Mr. FORD. That has been very helpful and beneficial as far as safety and responsibility is concerned?

General KELLY. It has; and in getting the proper equipment, and "I would carry that a little further to this effect, that we should further modernize the CRAF and get rid of some of the old DC-4's that are still in CRAF, although we are not doing business with those airplanes because of our requiring modern aircraft. With your language we could, so long as they are a member of CRAF.

Mr. FORD. What can you do to force them to get rid of these obsolescent aircraft?

General KELLY. We are meeting with DATA right now in the Department of Commerce and are revising the CRAF requirements and also revising the CRAF report as to who has the airplane, and its

status.