of 85 cents, and then afterwards we got some competitive bids and found that we could get the freighting done for 65 cents a hundred, although we are still paying the Indians 85 cents.

Senator ASHURST. Although you could get it done for 65 cents through other channels?

Mr. WALKER. Yes.

The INTERPRETER. Why is it they get lower price for hauling by truck than by wagon?

Senator FRAZIER. They can make the trip much quicker.

Mr. SCATTERGOOD. And a truck carries a good deal more, too. Senator FRAZIER. It takes less time and others will haul it for less money. You have to keep up with the times and compete with other people.

The INTERPRETER. He wants to know about this irrigation proposition down here at Moenkopie wash, down here below the Government farm. They have been using the water every year. A man used a certain amount of water. Well, it used to be a man used the water on his land according to how much he got. He might have 20 acres; he might have 10; he might have 5. The usual rate for that water was two days' work, and now the thing has gone up and he has to pay $15 for irrigating his land.

Senator FRAZIER. How much land?

The INTERPRETER. He does not know just exactly what he has got, but he has a little over 5 acres.

Senator FRAZIER. How about that, Mr. Superintendent?
Mr. WALKER. The farmer is here and can answer.

no change I know of in that.

There has been

Senator FRAZIER. This man says he is charged now $15 for the irrigation of his land, and formerly he used to work two days to get that water.

What about it?

Mr. ENGLAND. I do not think there has been any difference in the rate of water for the last five years. He pays for what he gets. Senator FRAZIER. How many acres does he irrigate for $15?

Mr. ENGLAND. I could not tell you. You see, they get the water by the hour and not by the

Senator FRAZIER. By the hour?

Mr. ENGLAND. Yes; they are expected to pay 6 bits an hour for the water and work it out at $2 a day. That does not count your time to getting the fellows to work.

Mr. WALKER. That is in order to get them to do their part toward maintaining the system. We did not charge them anything at all. Senator FRAZIER. He said he paid $15. What does he mean by that?

Mr. ENGLAND. If he would rather pay than work why he can pay for his water at the rate of 75 cents an hour.

Senator FRAZIER. And let somebody else work it out for him? Mr. ENGLAND. Yes.

The INTERPRETER. I would like to ask this question: Was that ditch down there, that irrigation proposition, was it put here for the Indians, for their benefit? Was that money appropriated for that purpose in order to get that ditch made so that the Indians would get the benefit, or what is the Government trying to do for them? Senator FRAZIER. I suppose it is a reimbursable proposition?

Mr. WALKER. No, sir; it was supposed to be a Navajo-Hopi water development. I am not sure. It was not a reimbursible proposition, but there must be some way to maintain it and we have no funds for that, consequently, the Indians are expected to maintain it as much as the Government put it in.

Senator FRAZIER. The charge for the water is for maintenance and keeping up the ditches, keep them in repair, is that so?

Mr. WALKER. Yes.

The INTERPRETER. If that is the case, why not put the man on the ditch or the place where he could work it out instead of some of these fellows that have not got the money to pay out of their own pocket?

Mr. WALKER. We do not want anybody to pay for it. We want everybody to work it out. We have to turn around and hire somebody if we get the money.

Senator FRAZIER. Has he not been offered work in order to work it out at $2 a day?

The INTERPRETER. He was asked to do the work, but it is just the same thing as getting the money out of his own pocket in order to work it out.

Senator FRAZIER. Of course, it is the same thing. If he would rather pay the money, he can hire somebody else to do the work. Mr. ENGLAND. If he wants to work, I can put him to work tomorrow morning.

Senator ASHURST. Tell him he can work if he wants to.

Senator FRAZIER. He will have to work or pay the money to keep up the ditch.

The INTERPRETER. Two years ago he had trouble here with this Navajo named Mensen. He went and cut down three strands of wire which he had fenced around his farm. Then after this happened he went and came over to Mr. Walker to get help.

Mr. WALKER. That was after the crop had been gathered, Senator, and the Navajos were moving out. I do not know how much Sam had left in his field, but there were nothing but corn fodder and there was only a small area. He claims the Navajo cut the fence and let his own stock in to eat this fodder, but there were not witnesses on either side, and that is as far as I could go.

The INTERPRETER. Mr. Walker tried to help Sam out here, sent down a policeman to look over the thing; then he came to Mr. Walker with this point, he asked him how he wants his case to be handled, may he want the party put in the penitentiary or may he want him to work it out, but he does not want this thing done. He just wants to get what he can out of this Navajo so he will be satisfied. Is he here to do anything with the lawbreakers or the criminals that are working against the law? Is he not here to enforce that?

Senator FRAZIER. Oh, he is here to help the Indians, and be fair, and see that justice prevails among all you, of course, but he states in this case that the Navajo claimed he had cut the fence. It is hard to tell, you know, which side is right when one states one thing and the other side states something else. We have nothing to do with that matter. You will have to take that up with the department at Washingon.

(Witness excused.)

26465-32-PT 18-39

WILLIAM S. DALTON was thereupon called as a witness and, after being first duly sworn, testified as follows:

Senator FRAZIER. Where do you live?

Mr. DALTON. Moenkopie village.

Senator FRAZIER. You have a statement to make to the committee? Mr. DALTON. My statement will be in reference to the day school and for the benefit of my people. In listening to the hearings and what has been said in appropriating money for other purposes, I will say this much for my own people, that the condition of the day school down at Moenkopie is rather in poor condition. I believe that the faculty of that school will agree with me on that condition. In the first place they want an enlargement of the school building. We ask you, gentlemen, if we could place that school in your hands, that the school building be enlarged. I am very thankful to say that the statement has been made by Mr. Walker about having the grades a little higher—that is, making the grades up to the sixth. Senator FRAZIER. He has also recommended a larger building, an increase in the size of the building.

Mr. WALKER. Yes; a new building.

Mr. DALTON. Then comes the water condition among our people. I would ask if there should be such money appropriated for the benefit of putting up some larger tank so that it can be used for domestic purposes, such as cooking and washing, and other household benefits?

Mr. WALKER. That should be done.

Senator FRAZIER. Yes; I think it should, too.

Mr. DALTON. Those who had education have been taught by the faculty of the school in nonreservation schools that when you return home that we should carry ourselves and live equal with our white brothers.

Senator FRAZIER. Yes.

Mr. DALTON. To this statement I say we are trying to keep up with some of our white brothers, but on one condition, the water condition, which is not holding us down.

Senator FRAZIER. We want to help you all we can to get water. Mr. DALTON. Then there is other stuff we have listed here. There is a permanent cottage should be provided for our field matron. Senator FRAZIER. Have you a field matron down there? Mr. DALTON. So far as my knowledge, we have not.

Senator FRAZIER. How about that, Mr. Superintendent; have you any field matron or field nurse?

Mr. WALKER. We do not have one now. We have a field nurse; yes. There was a time when the field nurse gave practically all of her time to the Hopis, but she was not received very pleasantly, and by direction of the supervisor of field nurses the position of field nurse was established here for the benefit of the Indians at the agency, Navajos or Hopis, so we are trying to give the time in proportion to their needs. The field nurse visits them occasionally now. Senator FRAZIER. Is attention being given to those children down there?

Mr. WALKER. She has been here only a short time, but she visits the day school regularly, I believe.

Senator FRAZIER. Does the doctor go down there whenever he is needed?

Mr. WALKER. Yes.

Senator FRAZIER. Anything else?

Mr. DALTON. Well, on that condition, Mr. Walker, you say the field nurse has made rather irregular visits. I have not seen her around.

Mr. WALKER. Mr. Rhodes, how often has she been down there? Mr. RHOADS. She comes down there once a week, on Monday. Mr. WALKER. Where does she go-to the school?

Mr. RHOADS. To the school and wherever she is wanted. She has been around the different homes, but I do not know just which homes. Mr. SCATTERGOOD. Maybe you are working so hard out in the field you never see her when she comes.

Senator FRAZIER. If the field nurse is wanted at any place and does not get there, just take it up with the superintendent and I am sure he will cooperate.

Mr. DALTON. I hope I can get the backing of it.

Senator FRAZIER. Anything else?

Mr. DALTON. The statement has been made about labor conditions. To my knowledge it is right we should take up special labor conditions with our superintendent; whether I am right or whether I am wrong, may I say, whether I am right or whether I am wrong, that we should take up all matters with the superintendent? Senator FRAZIER. Yes; I think you are right.

Mr. DALTON. Among my people down at the Moenkopie village there are some returned students who have an excellent education and trade. They have learned those things at the nonreservation schools, such as Riverside, Phoenix, and Haskell. And so it is among the Navajos. I am sure they agree with me on that. I want to ask, those who are able to produce the work, those who are able to do work the same as a white man, are we not capable enough to be looked upon the same as our white brothers?

Mr. WALKER. Yes.

Mr. DALTON. Then Mr. Walker and you gentlemen we should receive some such wages.

Senator FRAZIER. You should receive what?

Mr. DALTON. Some such wages.

Senator FRAZIER. Do you mean the same wages as the white men do?

Mr. DALTON. Yes; provided we got our own tools. That is where the kick comes in. You've got to get your tools before you can get anywhere. I had that said to me every now and then. Now, am willing to open up my tool box and exhibit what I have in my possession along the line of carpentry work.

Senator FRAZIER. Are you a carpenter?

Mr. DALTON. Yes, sir.

Senator FRAZIER. What school did you go to!

Mr. DALTON. Sherman Institute.

Senator FRAZIER. You would like to get carpenter work to do? Mr. DALTON. I am at the present time employed by the agent, but I am merely speaking for the rest of those that might have the same

trade; might have the same good intelligence as I have who carry themselves and be with the rest.

Senator FRAZIER. You think there are more who would like to get work and who are qualified to do the work?

Mr. DALTON. Yes; there are friends of mine among the Navajos who have trade. I am sure they will fall in line with the rest of us. Senator FRAZIER. We would like to see you boys employed in every possible place.

It seems to me in connection with the work that is being done on this school building, and so forth, that you ought to be given the preference whenever you are fitted to do the work.

Mr. DALTON. Now comes the mason work. If you gentlemen would only give us time, at least a half hour of your time, and come down to the village and look over the stone work which has been put up by us Indians

Senator FRAZIER. Who was the boss down there when that stone work was done?

Mr. DALTON. There is not a regular boss, but they merely did it on their own account. I will say our work is just as good as the rest. Senator FRAZIER. We are going to drive through the village. Mr. DALTON. I am glad you are.

Senator FRAZIER. I visited your village some four years ago.

Mr. DALTON. I hope you stay long enough so we could bring out some stuff so that you can look over the things and see if that generally speaks for itself.

Senator FRAZIER. We will be glad to see it.

Mr. DALTON. Taking up the question of our superintendent, Mr. Walker, may I ask this of you, Mr. Walker: In such a matter, the way we understand now, are you willing to cooperate with us in such a way and bring out things in a proper way that we can fully understand?

Mr. WALKER. Just as we always have; yes, sir.

Senator FRAZIER. I want to say that if at any time the Hopis and Navajos can not get the information they want from the superintendent or the other employees and can not get the cooperation of the superintendent our committee in Washington want to hear about it. We will take it up directly with the department. We feel that you ought to have good men here, and I think they are, so far as we know. If they are not we want to find out about it.

Mr. DALTON. I am trying to represent my organization. Will they be recognized by the Government. I do not know whether the comment?

Senator FRAZIER. How about that, Mr. Scattergood? What is your organization?

Mr. DALTON. My organization is the returned students and those uneducated people who are willing to understand and work for the benefit of the Hopis.

Senator FRAZIER. Well, I think any organization should be recognized that is doing good work for the Indians. I think they should be recognized by the Government. I do not know whether the commissioner will agree with me or not.

Mr. SCATTERGOOD. I did not understand his question.