They claim it is a Hopi calf and the Navajos claim the calf just the same as the Hopis. The Navajo brand has been put on six months ahead of the Hopi brand, then the Hopi brand was put on without negotiation with us or anything else. The calf's ears were cut off to obliterate the brand that the Navajos put on. Then we prosecuted Philip here for doing it because he is the Hopi, and I think the Navajo, too, is in the audience. The case, I believe, was thrown out at Flagstaff and nothing else was done about it, but there still remains the question of who I should pay the money to for this calf that we butchered because we did not have anything else to do with it, so we butchered the calf. I am willing to pay it to the person the calf belongs to and that is the question at issue here.

Senator FRAZIER. Who is going to decide it?

Mr. WALKER. I have promised we would split the difference. I went down a few days ago to the United States attorney at Phoenix and the United States attorney directed that we pay the money to the Navajos and that is the present status of the case.

Senator ASHURST. Have you a letter from the United States attorney?

Mr. WALKER. I have no letter. We also are keeping the head so that if any member of the committee would like to see it I will be glad to show it to them.

Senator FRAZIER. I do not see what the committee can do about it. Mr. POLY. The calf was in with his cow nursing it and the fellow here herding his sheep and they brought it in and they had the mother with it and this Navajo was in the corral and claimed it. Somebody had branded it and cut the ear, so he did not say anything. It was with the mother, so he burned it and cut its ear off just the same. If this calf was with him they took it from the mother and brought it up here some place, and after two days the calf was over there again looking for its mother. That is the way it happened. Now, then, they brought it in and the Navajo tells Mr. Walker it is his. That is the reason he was talking to this fellow. He never saw him before. They kill it and after they kill it we take him over to Flagstaff and put him in jail.

Senator ASHURST. It is worth about $30?

Mr. POLY. I could not say.

Senator ASHURST. Each take a half thereof.

Mr. POLY. That is all right; but after this had happened we brought this back, when we come after a day or two we round up the cattle again and another one show up with the same fellow's cow with the same ear mark and the same brand on it and this Navajo claimed it. It looks like these two fellows come over and some of the Navajos there with the mother. That is the way it happened. Now he says it belongs to the Navajos. We do not understand that. Mr. WALKER. We did not say that. We did not decide it. Mr. POLY. That is what you said. Senator FRAZIER. He said the United States district attorney said that the Navajos should be paid; is that it?

Mr. WALKER. The only way to settle it, as I told you before, is to split it, each take half.

Senator ASHURST. Give each one-half thereof.

Senator FRAZIER. Is that satisfactory?

Mr. POLY. Why should that be; the calf is with the mother and she nurses it; why should it be divided up?

Senator ASHURST. Tell him there is no other just way to settle it. Mr. POLY. He says there is not any Navajo cattle in the bunch. The Navajo says the mother was down there some place.

Senator ASHURST. Tell him each to take half.

Senator FRAZIER. Are you the man who claimed the calf that this Hopi Indian also claimed?

Mr. SILAS JOHNSON. Yes.

Senator FRAZIER. Silas Johnson.

Senator ASHURST. Do you claim the calf?

Mr. JOHNSON. Yes.

Senator ASHURST. Will you be content to take one-half of the money and settle the dispute that way?

Mr. JOHNSON. Yes.

Senator ASHURST. All right.

Senator FRAZIER. Will you be content?

Mr. PoLY. It is not his. That is why he wants to have it divided. He is willing to take half because it is not his. That is what he said. They return it to Flagstaff and have it all fixed at Flagstaff. They have papers all written out down there

Senator FRAZIER. You say the case was thrown out?

Mr. WALKER. As I understand it; yes. We never could get it tried. We never got it in the Federal Court.

Senator FRAZIER. Is the trial still pending?

Mr. WALKER. Through this attorney the case was dropped, as I understand it.

Senator FRAZIER. Your suggestion is that they each take half? Mr. WALKER. Yes; I do not know whose calf it is. I have just as much evidence on one side as the other.

Senator FRAZIER. You tell him it is the opinion of the committee he should take his half and that is the best way we can settle it under the circumstances. It can not be determined satisfactorily who owns the calf, so that each of them should take half of the money and call it square and forget about it.

Mr. POLY. Nobody would fix up things what has happened among Hopis; nobody would help out. We are thrown out like we are nothing.

Senator ASHURST. You are getting a half. We can not settle it in any other way. He is getting one-half and you are getting one-half.

Senator FRAZIER. Is that all right now?

Mr. POLY. Yes.

(Witness excused.)

SAMUEL SHING was thereupon called as a witness, and, after being first duly sworn, testified as follows:

Senator FRAZIER. State your full name.

Mr. SHING. Samuel Shing.

Senator FRAZIER. Where do you live, Mr. Shing?

Mr. SHING. Tuba City.

Senator FRAZIER. You are a member of the Hopi Council?

Mr. SHING. Yes; I am a member of the council at New Oraibi.

Senator FRAZIER. You are the young man they told us yesterday wanted to be heard here?

Mr. SHING. Yes.

Senator FRAZIER. What is it you want to take up?

Mr. SHING. I would like to know why did the Government send us to school?

Senator FRAZIER. Why did the Government what?

Mr. SHING. Why did the Government send us to school?

Senator FRAZIER. Who do you want to answer that? Do you not think your schooling did you any good?

Mr. SHING. That is what I would like to know. What is your opinion about it?

Mr. GRORUD. What have you in mind?

Senator FRAZIER. Where did you go to school?
Mr. SHING. To learn.

Senator FRAZIER. Whereabouts?

Mr. SHING. Riverside.

Senator FRAZIER. How long were you there?

Mr. SHING. Five years.

Senator FRAZIER. You did not complete the course there?

Mr. SHING. No, sir.

Senator FRAZIER. Of course, you went to school to get an education in order to help you make a better living after you got out.

Mr. SHING. Among the white men or on the reservation?

Senator FRAZIER. Either one. Are you working down at Flagstaff now?

Mr. SHING. Yes.

Senator FRAZIER. What are you doing?

Mr. SHING. I am working for Doctor Colton.

Senator FRAZIER. What further statement do you want to make? Mr. SHING. I would like to bring out that the educated Indian has very little authority on the reservation, because when a fellow returns from school and tries to tell the elders and tries to tell the superintendent his opinion, why, he is ready to be kicked out of the reservation, punished, thrown in jail, whipped.

Senator FRAZIER. Who has threatened you in that way?

Mr. SHING. Since last October I have been fired out of this place. Senator FRAZIER. Out of this school here, you mean?

Mr. SHING. Yes; out of a job.

Senator FRAZIER. Out of a job here?

Mr. SHING. Yes.

Senator FRAZIER. What job did you have here?

Mr. SHING. Working over at the mason.

Senator FRAZIER. What did you get fired for? What did you do? Mr. SHING. Because there was some workingmen over there and some of us fellows, the Indians, including Navajos and Hopis, doing the same job as the rest of them and getting much lower money than what they are getting, and we come to the foreman or superintendent and try to ask for more money; we were not listened to, and they were ready to fire us for expressing our opinion. We were ready to be fired.

Senator FRAZIER. What about that, Mr. Superintendent?

Mr. WALKER. He expressed his opinion to the foreman in such a violent language that the foreman canned him because of his being

a fellow that would kind of lay down on the job. The man is out here, and we can call him if you would like to hear him.

Senator FRAZIER. What was he doing?

Mr. WALKER. A laborer, helping on the building.
Senator FRAZIER. What were his wages?

Mr. SHING. $2.

Mr. WALKER. To the returned students who worked, we paid $2.50. We pay them just the same as the Indians that are uneducated. There are a number here who are getting $2.50 and $3

Senator FRAZIER. His statement was that the white men doing the same work were getting more money than the Indians were paid. How about that?

Mr. WALKER. Well, I do not agree with him.

Senator FRAZIER. Was this man superintendent of some building gang?

Mr. WALKER. He is just a construction foreman out here on this job now.

Senator FRAZIER. Hired by you?

Mr. WALKER. Yes; he has been working in the Indian Service off and on for 13 or 15 years; for me, 2 years. That is about the only complaint we have had from the Indians.

Senator ASHURST. What are you doing now?

Mr. SHING. Working for Doctor Colton.

Senator ASHURST. You are allowed to come on the reservation, are you not?

Mr. SHING. Sure, but he won't allow me to work.

Senator ASHURST. You have a good boss now, have you not?
Mr. SHING. Yes; but after I run out of a job, then what?

Mr. WALKER. You will be permitted to work any time you come back and want to do work.

Mr. SHING. I did not cuss him. I just simply give it back. If it was not for you I never would learn to cuss. There is no such thing in the Hopi language.

Senator FRAZIER. The Hopis do not do any cussing? I think the Indians have learned a lot of bad traits from the white people; there is no question about that. However, it is the wish of the Indian Bureau and also of our committee of Congress to give the Indians employment wherever possible. Of course you have to get along with whoever you are working for.

Mr. SHING. Here is another thing: There were a lot of Italians over there who were not even citizens of the United States.

Senator ASHURST. I have heard some complaint about that. How about that?

Mr. WALKER. Not here now. Not to our knowledge. There are Italian stonemasons; I do not know whether they are citizens or not. We do not question every one, but inasmuch as they have been employed in New Mexico and employed here we employed them.

Senator ASHURST. I suggest that in every case where a man is employed you ought to ascertain whether or not he is a citizen of the United States. I do not know anything about this man's complaint. I know nothing about the facts, but in all cases if a man is employed it ought to be ascertained that he is a citizen of the United States, and in these times especially.

Mr. SHING. Of course, this point here is not only for myself but for the rest of the Indians.

Senator ASHURST. The Indians are all citizens.

Mr. SHING. I would like to have them employed.

Senator ASHURST. So would we, wherever they can be employed, but they must do good, honest, fair work if they expect to be employed; they can not "loaf on the job."

Senator FRAZIER. Are there any stonemasons among your people? Mr. SHING. Yes, sir.

Senator FRAZIER. Who are qualified to build one of these buildings like this new one going up?

Mr. SHING. A fellow that knows anything, but he is not qualified to do anything

Senator FRAZIER. I do not like to hear you express yourself that way. What course did you take at school down at Riverside? Mr. SHING. Shoe and harness making.

Senator FRAZIER. Can you get a job along that line? Don't you like it?

Mr. SHING. Sure, I like it.

Senator FRAZIER. Could you not get a job doing that kind of work? Mr. SHING. Of course, I like it if they have it on the reservation. Senator FRAZIER. You would like to have a job on the reservation? Mr. SHING. Yes.

Senator FRAZIER. Your folks live here!

Mr. SHING. Yes.

Senator FRAZIER. Whereabouts!

Mr. SHING. At Moenkopie.

Senator ASHURST. You are a truck driver, are you not?
Mr. SHING. Yes, sir.

Senator ASHURST. You are a good truck driver?

Mr. SHING. Yes.

Senator ASHURST. You have got a job now?

Mr. SHING. Yes.

Senator ASHURST. I am sure if you would use proper language and not swear at or abuse other workmen or abuse your superintendent, you will be allowed on the reservation and allowed to work, but the Indian must remember, whether he is educated or not, that he has to do fair, square, hard work. Now do you understand that?

Mr. SHING. If I go out and do truck driving here and if a white man do the truck driving and I take his place, will cut the wages down?

Senator ASHURST. I do not think so, if you drive the truck as well as the white man.

Mr. SHING. Why, of course, I can.

Senator ASHURST. They will not cut your wages if you drive the truck as well as the white man.

Senator FRAZIER. How about that?

Mr. WALKER. We have no truck job available. We have no-
Senator FRAZIER. At the present time?

Mr. WALKER. We have one man here who is driving a truck quite regularly. He is also acting as foreman of the concrete gang up here. So he is worth more than $2 a day.