Dr. C. H. KOENTZ was thereupon called as a witness and, after being first duly sworn, testified as follows: Senator FRAZIER. State your full name. Doctor KOENTZ. C. H. Koentz. Senator FRAZIER. How long have you been at Kayenta? Doctor KOENTZ. Two years and seven months. Senator FRAZIER. That is almost directly north from here or northeast? Doctor KOENTZ. East mostly and a little north. Senator FRAZIER. How far, about? Doctor KOENTZ. Eighty miles, approximately. Senator FRAZIER. How large a territory, reservation, or jurisdiction do you have? Doctor KOENTZ. None at all; just the sanitarium and sanitarium ground is all. It is located on the Western Navajo Reservation. Senator FRAZIER. On the Western Navajo Reservation. Tell us briefly about your work there. How large a place have you? Doctor KOENTZ. It was started as a 40-bed sanitarium and carrying on as that at this time. The patients come from all over this country; most of them-perhaps 70 per cent-are from the western Navajo. We have some from Leupp, some from the northern Navajo, and some from the southern Navajo. Senator FRAZIER. What about the general health condition of the Indians throughout that section of the country? Doctor KOENTZ. I would say they are no different from other sections of this country. There is considerable tuberculosis, quite a considerable amount of trachoma, especially over around the northern Navajo end of that we have to take care. Senator FRAZIER. Where? Doctor KOENTZ. The northern Navajos; particularly around Den- De hato there is a great amount of trachoma. Senator FRAZIER. Would you say a higher percentage than at other places! Doctor KOENTZ. I do not know what the percentage is, trachoma not being my particular line, but we take care of all things that come along. The place was started originally as strictly a T. B. sanitarium, but, being located as it is, so far away, it was necessary to set a ward aside to take care of the emergency things that came up, and we did set aside a 10-bed ward to take care of the emergencies that might arise. Senator FRAZIER. You treat trachoma cases there? Senator FRAZIER. Do you get satisfactory results? Doctor KOENTZ. We have been having pretty good luck with our trachoma cases, we think. Senator FRAZIER. State briefly how you treat the trachoma cases. Doctor KOENTZ. Well, it depends on the stage that trachoma is in. We find a lot of granulations. We scrape the granulations off with gauze. Following this we let the patient rest a few days; then we follow with silver treatment three times a week, then with either copper sulphate or silver and copper sulphate alternately. Argyrol, of course, is used, too, all the while. Senator FRAZIER. Do you use any caustics? Doctor KOENTZ. Silver I presume you refer to. We use that; yes, sir. Senator FRAZIER. In one hospital we visited, the doctor was turning the lid back in the boys' eyes and rubbing them with a little greenish pencil. Doctor KOENTZ. Copper sulphate. Senator FRAZIER. Is that the treatment you use? Doctor KOENTZ. I do not use that; no; but that is one of the treatments for trachoma. That has been used for years. Senator FRAZIER. This seemed to be very painful to the boys. Doctor KOENTZ. It is. It leaves a very irritating effect for a while from the copper sulphate. We are not using the copper sulphate now, however, at Kayenta. Senator FRAZIER. That has been only a few days ago. Doctor KOENTZ. We are using copper sulphate in an ointment. It is not so irritating, and we are getting just as good results. Senator FRAZIER. It would seem to me, if they find some new or some different preparation they can use that is not so painful and one which gets just as good result, it ought to be adopted all over the system wherever they treat trachoma. Doctor KOENTZ. We are getting very good results with the treatment we are using now, and we are not using the copper sulphate stick. Senator FRAZIER. Have you any recommendations or suggestions looking toward the betterment of health conditions up there in your territory? Doctor KOENTZ. Well, sir, Kayenta is located in a way that makes medical service very expensive. By that I mean for every 100 pounds of supplies that we get in we have to add an additional cost of $1.55 per hundred transportation charge from the railroad. That is one thing. I believe that could be helped by improving our road conditions. You gentlemen have traveled the road from Fort Definance to Chin Lee, I believe, and that is a sample, a fair sample, of the 80 miles of road between Tuba City and Kayenta. All of our supplies have to be transported up there over such a road as that. We are very anxious to have the roads improved to Kayenta. Mr. SCATTERGOOD. If a road were built from Tuba City up toward the northeast, toward Colorado, which might prove a main tourists' highway, would it in fact go through Kayenta? Doctor KOENTZ. I think it would. I believe it could be planned to go through Monument Valley, and, if that is the case, it would have to come through Kayenta. Mr. SCATTERGOOD. It would be a road of interest to the nationalpark system and also to tourists in general? Doctor KOENTZ. Yes. Senator FRAZIER. Would you advise the discontinuance of this hospital up there? Doctor KOENTZ. Well, it was my understanding when I was sent to Kayenta in the first place, two years and seven months ago, that it was started more as an experiment. That is what I was told. We functioned perhaps not as we would like but we have functioned. Senator FRAZIER. We would like to have your opinion of the experiment. Doctor KOENTZ. I would say this: These Indians live there. It is their home. They have to be taken care of, and I certainly think Kayenta should be continued. Senator FRAZIER. It would be practically impossible to get those Indians to go 150 or 160 miles more to some other hospital on the railroad, would it? Doctor KOENTZ. It is very difficult to get the Indians to do that. When I first went to Kayenta I will say there was quite a feeling against the white doctor, which is usually the case, but in the last two years there has been quite a change. The Indians now are asking for hospitalization. Senator FRAZIER. Have you a T. B. sanitarium there? Senator FRAZIER. What success do you have there with the Indians coming in to take treatments for tuberculosis? Doctor KOENTZ. Most of the cases are referred to us from schools. However, we have a great many of the camp Indians make application for entrance but they do that in many cases when it is too late. We all know that T. B. has to be taken care of early and over a long period of time to gain any headway. Another thing the camp Indian will come in, he will improve and begin to eat, pick up weight. They say then they are going home. We tell them that is the time they should stay; they should stay a little while longer and get thoroughly healed, but they will go home. Several we have had that have gone home have had relapses and some of them are over the Great Divide now. They have improved fine but it was impossible to keep them there. I think with education and with the Indians' willingness that that will be overcome after a while, but that is not done in one period of two years. Senator FRAZIER. How many nurses have you up there in the hospital? Doctor KOENTZ. Three. Senator FRAZIER. Three altogether? Doctor KOENTZ. One of these nurses is on part time field duty. She makes regular trips out to Denehotso and to Chimopovey, one of these stations being on the northern Navajo and one on southern Navajo. She makes these trips each week. Then she makes other trips as occasion arises. Senator FRAZIER. Do you think the work of the field nurse is quite important and getting good results? Doctor KOENTZ. Yes, I think it is. The thing is developing. It was new to the Indian and now these trips are so arranged or we have tried to arrange them at the time they are having their chapter meetings. Our nurse gets to meet a lot of these Indians at the meetings and visit with the mothers, telling them how to take care of their babies, give them talks, and so forth. She meets a lot of them and treats them at the time, picks up the serious ones, and, if possible, brings them into the sanitarium. Senator FRAZIER. How many Indian families have you tributary to Kayenta-say within a radius of 15 or 20 miles? Doctor KOENTZ. That radius would not suit us because our activities carry us out 27 miles. One of our main sources where most of our cases are perhaps, Denehotso, and that is 27 miles. Senator FRAZIER. In that radius? Doctor KOENTZ. I would rather have some of the superintendents tell us that, because I could not say how many in the vicinity. Mr. WALKER. About 100 families, I should say, in that vicinity or tributary to Kayenta. Doctor KOENTZ. How many around Denehotso, within 5, 6, or 10 miles? Mr. ASHCROFT. About 100. Senator FRAZIER. Do you have a school there at Kayenta? Senator FRAZIER. Yes. Doctor KOENTZ. No, sir; no Indian school. We have an educational teacher who teaches our tubercular patients who are ambulatory to weave and do other little work. At the same time, she carries a little bit of reading, writing, and arithmetic, and they learn that without knowing they are in school. We carry on no examination, but we keep the children occupied all the time, and since that has been established the children are much more willing to stay and there has been a better attitude and they forget their sickness. Senator FRAZIER. How many children have you there at the sanitarium? Doctor KOENTZ. The last report was 38. Thirty-eight patients. Those are not all children; some are camp Indians. Our T. B. list I think was 34 in the last weekly census. Senator FRAZIER. Do you think the sanitarium should be enlarged to accommodate more of these T. B. patients? Doctor KOENTZ. It might well be enlarged, but before we enlarge the capacity we would have to have different facilities. For instance, the two dormitories that have been changed into the sanitarium are separated by an open court, and our dining room and kitchen is in the front end of one of these. If there is any change at all, the kitchen and dining room should be kept at the back, connecting the two buildings, then the number of beds could be enlarged quite a bit, as many as we could fill. Senator FRAZIER. Are there many maternity cases that come to your hospital? Doctor KOENTZ. Not many. two years I have been there. Senator FRAZIER. Any other statement you wish to make? Doctor KOENTZ. Well, I would like to say in connection with that, this: There is a little farming community near Kayenta where the Indians perhaps take care of 100 acres of land. They raise corn. I would like to have these Indians supplied, or at least instilled, with the idea of better homes. Make a community up there so we can have better access to them and do better work with them. They come into this little farm area during the summer time to live. If they had permanent homes or hogans, or whatever they might be, so they might live there, these children who are out in the camp might have at least a part of a summer-school education. It is not practical at all in the wintertime by having the Indians segregated in this manner. If they were all in this community we would be able to do much better work for them and it would be much better in every way. That would mean homes, water, and a community life for them. We have had perhaps 10 in all in the They are camp Indians. Senator FRAZIER. Do you find it is necessary to get acquainted with these Indians and get their confidence before they will come to the hospital and be treated? Doctor KOENTZ. I feel that is the case; yes, sir. Senator FRAZIER. How about this proposition of changing the doctor so often in these places-do you think that is a good idea or not, or can it be avoided? We have found so many places where a doctor stays only a few months, a year or two, and then is transferred to some other place. Perhaps they ask for a transfer; I do not know about that. Doctor KOENTZ. I think, perhaps, that rotation is for the benefit of the general influence it has on the Indian Service. Perhaps it is better for the particular community to make changes. The Indian Office perhaps knows more about that than I. I do not think, however, an Indian's confidence has to be gotten. I think, once it is gotten, the Indian is willing to cooperate and work with you to a great extent. Senator FRAZIER. Any other statement? Doctor KOENTZ. The Indians around Kayenta are particularly willing. They are in a receptive mood right now, and I think much to be accomplished in the next few years at Kayenta. Mr. GRORUD. You have been transferred from Kayenta, have you not? Doctor KOENTZ. Yes. Mr. GRORUD. Where to? Doctor KOENTZ. Fort Lapwai, Idaho. Mr. SCATTERGOOD. That is made at your own request? Doctor KOENTZ. In a sense; yes, sir. In another sense, no. The medical director of that country, I think, started the transfer idea, Doctor Warner. Mr. GRORUD. Who is taking your place? Doctor KOENTZ. Doctor Hagerty. Mr. GRORUD. Of Shiprock? Doctor KOENTZ. Yes. Senator FRAZIER. Any further statement? Doctor KOENTZ. No. Senator FRAZIER. That is all then. (Witness excused.) LEE BRADLEY was thereupon called as a witness, and, after being first duly sworn, testified as follows: Senator FRAZIER. Your name? Mr. BRADLEY. Lee Bradley. Senator FRAZIER. You live up in the Kayenta country? Mr. BRADLEY. Yes. Senator FRAZIER. Are you in the Government service up there! Mr. BRADLEY. Not exactly. I am freighting for the Government; yes. Senator FRAZIER. Freighting. Is that under contract or just by the day? Mr. BRADLEY. Yes; I have the mail contract. Senator FRAZIER. How far do you have to freight? |