Mr. SCATTERGOOD. How long have they been working on this new well?

Mr. WILCOx. Since the middle of last December.

Mr. NEUFER. They have not been working on the well for about a month or a month and a half. We had to stop to get in a new type of equipment. We have a temporary arrangement to supply water during construction.

Senator FRAZIER. What do you mean by new equipment?

Mr. NEUFFER. We had to get new pumps.

Senator FRAZIER. Has the fashion changed since you started on the well?

Mr. NEUFFER. Conditions have changed. We are having to do something that has not been done before in pumping water in a situation such as this.

Senator FRAZIER. Are you satisfied now you are going to get plenty of water?

Mr. NEUFFER. I think we are going to get plenty of water.
Senator FRAZIER. Any other suggestions, Mr. Superintendent?
Mr. WILCOX. No, sir; I believe not.

Senator FRAZIER. Have you a hospital here ?

Mr. WILCOX. No, sir.

Senator FRAZIER. What about that; is there need of a hospital here? Where is your nearest hospital?

Mr. WILCOX. Keams Canyon, 40 miles from here.

Senator FRAZIER. Would you recommend a small hospital here, sort of an emergency hospital?

Mr. WILCOX. I think we need a hospital here.

Senator FRAZIER. What about your storage system? Is there need of improvement on that, too, or is that fairly well taken care of? Mr. WILCOX. I think it should be extended some.

Senator FRAZIER. I suppose in your report you will make these recommendations for the next Budget.

Mr. WILCOX. Yes, sir.

Senator ASHURST. Mr. Wilcox, is there a physician stationed here? Mr. WILCOX. Yes.

Senator ASHURST. His name?

Mr. WILCOX. Doctor Burgess.

Senator ASHURST. What have you to say about the necessity for field nurses?

Mr. WILCOX. I think there is a need for them.

Senator ASHURST. Have you a field nurse here now ?

Mr. WILCOX. Yes; we have one.

Senator ASHURST. Is that one nurse sufficient for all purposes?
Mr. WILCOX. I think so.

Senator ASHURST. Mr. Grorud says you got the physician just two months ago; that prior to that time you had none.

Mr. WILCOX. Yes; that is right.

Senator ASHURST. I wish to develop further the question of water supply. Do you have ample water here for all domestic purposes? Mr. WILCOX. We do not at the present time.

Senator ASHURST. You do not?

Mr. WILCOX. But I understand, as I said awhile ago, when the new well is completed we will have sufficient water for all purposes.

Senator ASHURST. For all purposes? Do you mean by that for stock and domestic purposes also, or do you mean domestic purposes? Mr. WILCOX. Domestic purposes.

Senator ASHURST. How about the feasibility of a reasonable water supply for moderate stock purposes?

Mr. WILCOX. I think it could be developed.
Senator ASHURST. That is all.

(Witness excused.)

A. H. WOMACK was recalled as a witness and, having been previously sworn in these hearings, testified as follows:

Senator ASHURST. You have charge of the water supply or water department here, have you not?

Mr. WOMACK. Yes, sir.

Senator ASHURST. What is your opinion of this water situation at Oraibi?

Mr. WOMACK. Well, just now it is in a very bad condition. They are very short of water, due to the fact that they were out of water and their old well caved in, and we adopted another system of getting water by sinking a concrete casing down. When we got down to where we had plenty of water, why, our pumps were too small and so we could not get the water up. So we have already got more water than they possibly can use, but, owing to the fact that the wash is cutting down a little bit also all the time, we are trying to sink farther down, so in the event the wash cuts down deeper it will not undermine our well and leave the water shallow in the well. We had to go to work and dewater the place and go ahead and sink the casing on down to a safe depth.

Senator ASHURST. When did you complete the well?

Mr. WOMACK. We can complete the well in a few days, probably 10 to 15 days.

Senator ASHURST. Then will the water be ready for use here?

Mr. WOMACK. We have now a temporary pump connected up to furnish water as best we can during construction.

Mr. SCATTERGOOD. What depth is the well?

Mr. WOMACK. Sixty feet.

Mr. SCATTERGOOD. Is it good water?

Mr. WOMACK. Yes, sir.

Mr. SCATTERGOOD. Not hard?

Mr. WOMACK. Well, it will not be considered real hard water for this country. It is real good water for this country.

Senator ASHURST. About how many gallons of water daily would be required for this village, including domestic use?

Mr. WOMACK. You would have to take it through appropriations. The school could probably run with 50 gallons, but the homes where they would carry it from the hydrant without modern fixtures in their house, they would do with very few gallons. This school would use more water than the entire village.

Senator ASHURST. Are you able to say to the committee that within a few days facilities will be perfected which will furnish ample water for domestic purposes to all the Indians and to the personnel here? Mr. WOMACK. Yes; much more than that they will likely ever be able to pump from the ordinary pump that will be put on.

Mr. SCATTERGOOD. There will be enough to take care of the small field hospital if it should be desirable to build one here?

Mr. WOMACK. Oh, yes. We are having trouble beating the water with the pump we have. We had to send and get a centrifugal pump, one that will pump about 220 gallons.

Senator FRAZIER. You mean in order to get the water out to sink your casing

Mr. WOMACK. We had to dewater the whole thing.

Senator FRAZIER. Now, you have a pump that will pump 220 gallons per minute?

Mr. WOMACK. It will not pump that much, but we can at least have 40 gallons a minute.

Senator ASHURST. Forty gallons a minute would be ample, would it not?

Mr. WOMACK. Oh, yes. They can put spigots on the hydrant out in the village and get all the water they want.

Senator ASHURST. What have you to say about the advisability of obtaining a moderate supply of water for stock purposes?

Mr. WOMACK. At this place?

Senator ASHURST. In the immediate vicinity of Oraibi.

Mr. WOMACK. Yes; we can sink wells. The fact is that this wash. runs here for about 40 miles.

Senator ASHURST. What is the name of the wash?

Mr. WOMACK. The Oraibi Wash.

Senator FRAZIER. It flows for 40 miles?

Mr. WOMACK. Forty miles.

Senator ASHURST. It does not flow the year around?

Mr. WOMACK. Yes; but there are times when the water is muddy in the extreme flood season, owing to the shale condition at the top. It runs very heavy in coloring matter, which is not good for the stock during the muddy season. But we have some water developed along the wash with windmills and they can shift their herd to that water.

Senator ASHURST. Then on the whole the matter looks quite encouraging?

Mr. WOMACK. Yes; as far as this immediate vicinity is concerned, very encouraging.

Senator ASHURST. To how many sheep or goats, viz, how many head of livestock would this Oraibi stream furnish water the year around?

Mr. WOMACK. A thousand or more than that could graze in the vicinity.

Senator ASHURST. Your testimony is then that the Oraibi Wash furnishes ample water the year around for all the livestock that could conveniently be grazed hereabout?

Mr. WOMACK. This section I have reference to further up is dry, of course.

Senator ASHURST. Of course.

Mr. WOMACK. It runs clear except the flood season. That means during the rainy season and probably a few times in the winter and during the summer rains when it is flooded.

Senator ASHURST. Out here some few miles as we came along we saw a windmill. It was pumping quite a considerable stream of fresh, pure water. When was that built?

Mr. WOMACK. Well, that was back probably in 1915. I do not know the date, but about that time.

Senator ASHURST. What have you to say as to the feasibility or suitability of making tanks or troughs, whatever you call them?

Mr. WOMACK. Well, that is what is proposed now in our program, not only increase the troughs in length and capacity but also the storage.

Senator ASHURST. Increase the length and width of the troughs? Mr. WOMACK. Yes, sir.

Mr. NEUFFER. We have the tanks and troughs. We have a concrete tank in view. The idea is to double the capacity of the storage tanks so we can have more water.

Senator FRAZIER. How long is it going to take to do that?

Mr. WOMACK. It is going to take quite a while. I could not say when it would be done.

Mr. NEUFFER. May I suggest that in a case like that I would not replace that tank with a new one, but in new work we will replace with the larger ones. In a case like that where we have such a good tank it would be unwise to tear it down and put a new one in place of it except as a final refinement or betterment condition later on.

Senator FRAZIER. There were a number of places we have seen where there are windmills that had a reservoir dug out and walled up and the overflow running into that with fences around to keep the stock out or just allow them to drink. That seemed to be working very well. Why should not that be done at this place?

Mr. WOMACK. It can be except where seepage occurs. the most economical way of storing the water, however.

It is not Senator FRAZIER. It would be better than letting the water run off over the desert, would it not?

Mr. WOMACK. Yes, sir.

Senator FRAZIER. It would not take more than a half day to build that kind of a proposition, and there have been lots of half-day scrapers that could have been used in the last 15 years to do that work?

Mr. WOMACK. In many places where the stock conditions require more water the Indians have done that on their own account. Senator FRAZIER. I am sure they would do that.

Mr. WOMACK. They have got it in many cases.

Senator FRAZIER. Of course, the more water that is conserved the better it will be all around. The water should be conserved every possible way.

Mr. NEUFFER. May I ask if the storage tank at that particular well has ever been dry?

Mr. WOMACK. Oh, possibly. I do not know when, but it has very likely been dry at times when the wind was not blowing good and extra stock around or something like that.

Mr. NEUFFER. I would like to ask for the record: At Toreva the question was asked regarding our water supply.

Mr. WOMACK. Well, just recently, by request of Mr. Miller's office they wanted the details of what would be required to redevelop that spring and get an extra storage capacity upon top, pipes, a pump, and so forth. I have made out a list a few days ago and it is already in his office.

Senator FRAZIER. That will be taken care of?

Mr. WOMACK. Yes. His clerk has it already.

Senator ASHURST. I am very much gratified with the showing you are making on water situation here at Oraibai.

Mr. WOMACK. Thank you.

(Witness excused.)

Dr. M. E. BURGESS was thereupon called as a witness and, after being first duly sworn, testified as follows:

Senator FRAZIER. I understand you have only been here a short time?

Doctor BURGESS. Yes; two months.

Senator FRAZIER. How long have you been in the Indian Service? Doctor BURGESS. Six years.

Senator FRAZIER. You came here from South Dakota?

Doctor BURGESS. Yes.

Senator FRAZIER. How does the health of the Indians here compare with the health of the Indians on other reservations where you have been located?

Doctor BURGESS. The health of the Hopi is better than that of the Sioux; not so much trachoma, not so much tuberculosis.

Senator FRAZIER. So, comparatively, then, you would say these Hopi Indians

Doctor BURGESS. Are healthier than the Sioux.

Senator FRAZIER. Is there much tuberculosis or trachoma here? Doctor BURGESS. Not in comparison with what there is among the Sioux.

Senator FRAZIER. What would you say about an emergency hospital here or a local hospital?

Doctor BURGESS. I think there should be one, either here or at Hotevilla.

Senator FRAZIER. At either one of the places?

Doctor BURGESS. I would say, owing to the water supply and the grade of water, that Hotevilla would be a better place; that is, as to proximity of the Navajos. Of course, if it is just for the Hopis alone, I would say build it here; but if you are going to have one for the two tribes, then we have lots of Navajos that are not so close here. Senator FRAZIER. You have quite a large population over at the Hotevilla village, too, have you not?

Doctor BURGESS. Yes.

Senator FRAZIER. You have just one nurse here?

Doctor BURGESS. One field nurse at this station.

Senator FRAZIER. Is there a field nurse over at Hotevilla?

Doctor BURGESS. There is a matron there and a field nurse at Toreva.

Senator FRAZIER. How large a territory do you have here?

Doctor BURGESS. Well, I have Hotevilla, Oraibi, Chimopovy, and Toreva; then I take in the Navajo country surrounding. I fill calls 20 miles west of Hotevilla and that far north and south in the Navajo country.

Senator FRAZIER. So you have quite a large territory to cover. Have you been out to these villages over the reservation quite a lot! Doctor BURGESS. I have traveled a little more than 6,000 miles in the two months I have been here.