cents a pound. You see, wool will be worth only about 12 cents this year. Senator WHEELER. Wool? Mr. DODGE. Yes. Senator WHEELER. Which pays the best, the Angora goat or the sheep? Mr. DODGE. I think both of them pay about the same. Senator WHEELER. That is, if you have a high grade of goat? Senator WHEELER. How about these scrub goats? Mr. DODGE. The scrub goats, you see, these Indians down in this part of the country they improve their goats with Angoras. Senator WHEELER. I saw a lot of scrub goats out here. They would not be good for anything except for eating purposes and perhaps a little milk. Mr. DODGE. Yes. There is lots of them out in the Black Mountains. Senator WHEELER. Do you think the Indians want to get rid of the scrub goats? Mr. DODGE. I do not think they do because lots of them, that is all they got. Senator WHEELER. They do not want to get rid of them? Mr. DODGE. No. Senator WHEELER. Do you not think they could get better money for them if they got rid of the goats and had improved sheep? Mr. DODGE. They could, if somebody came in and take those goats away and give them something in place of them. Senator FRAZIER. They would be willing to exchange their goats for sheep? Mr. DODGE. Yes, sir. They will be glad to do it. Senator WHEELER. If you should have the goats taken away and nothing left-in other words, if the goats are going to be taken away from them they ought to have some sheep? They ought to be given some sheep? Mr. DODGE. Yes, sir. If the Government wants us to get rid of the common goat, the Indians say they ought to give us some sheep in place of the goats and then we will say, "We will let the goats go." Senator WHEELER. That is the feeling? Mr. DODGE. That is the feeling; yes, sir. Senator WHEELER. Could they not make more money if they had a better sheep in place of some of these goats? Mr. DODGE. Yes. They will weave them into a blanket. Senator WHEELER. They can not weave this goat hair, can they? Mr. DODGE. No; not the common goat, but the Angora goat they weave a good deal into blankets. Senator WHEELER. All right. Mr. DODGE. About this land, every time we have a council-as stated, the Indians surrendered from this country in 1864 and were brought back in 1868. Now, this is our own country and the Government ought to help us get this land back. Lots of Indians say if we want to get a piece of land in California or New York or the State of Illinois or Pennsylvania it would be a different thing, but this is our own country. They said we are not going to have people outside of our own. That is all. Senator WHEELER. All right. (Witness excused.) JOHN CURLEY was thereupon called as a witness and, after being first duly sworn, testified as follows: Senator FRAZIER. What is your full name? Mr. CURLEY. John Curley. Senator FRAZIER. Where do you live? Mr. CURLEY. Ganado, Ariz. Senator FRAZIER. How far is that from here? Mr. CURLEY. Thirty miles. Senator FRAZIER. Have you a statement? Mr. CURLEY. Yes, sir. Senator FRAZIER. Make it. Mr. CURLEY. I would like to say my subject is on the community chapter work, and there are some things I will say that will be of interest to you. Senator WHEELER. All right, proceed. Mr. CURLEY. The great problem of the Navajo must be administered through instrument of the chapter organization. Our title for this organization on the southern Navajo jurisdiction is livestock and home improvement. To start this association and get it on its feet was by no means an easy job. We received all kind of ridicule, such as, "Is not introduced from Washington; furthermore, you can not accomplish anything worth while by meeting together on the ground, under trees, or around the corner of the house, shivering in the cold." Nevertheless, our earnest expectation last year is our realization to-day. We found that we must first conquer ourselves before we can conquer others. I mean by this after a long, hard discussion we came to conclusion that our Navajo leaders should not be men who drink intoxicating liquor, not have the habit of gambling, and not more than one wife, for these are a hindrance to leadership for our Navajo Tribe. These chapter officers have been hindered in their accomplishments on account of the uncertainty of their authority and having no written laws to fall back on. The only laws we know is that we should go forward. Right is always expedient. These are some of the things the association has been weak in on account of this uncertainty: 1. To stop bootlegging or carrying liquor of any kind. 2. Prevent people from marrying without a license. 3. Proper cooperation from the people in the eradication of scabies among our sheep. 4. Proper cooperation from the people in the routine movement of stock for grazing land. 5. We have not been able to stop people cutting down trees unnec essarily, such as young pine trees and young pinion trees, for temporary purpose. We can not prevent men having two wives. If given proper authority and proper procedure we could gradually correct these evils. The chapter has helped the Navajos to help themselves. Here is our report for Ganado chapter from December 5 to April 1: Men donated work, both team and hand labor_ Total days worked___. Total money received in pledges and donations Showing all paid exceptions.... Alfalfa received gratis from J. L. Hubbell____ 350 960 $450 458 8 389 37 Twenty-five sheep, at $5 per head, donated by association to hire Navajo stonemason to complete rock work on meeting house. Seventy-two mutton donated by association for men while working on meeting house. Ganado chapter that is under the irrigation project also made and contracted with irrigation service at Ganado to remove 1,500 cubic yards of rock and dirt, at 10 cents per cubic yard. There were 19 men worked by hand, and 4 teams, and 306 days' work done. The work was completed at a cost of 52 cents per day, and out of this the workers had to pay their expenses. The Government appropriated $5,000 to all of the 20 chapters as a whole, and the Indians put in the work or pledged $80,000 out of their own pockets toward the chapter work. This goes to show that we are not only receiving but giving also for our country. Monthly regular meetings held during 1931: Every three months all the officers of the 27 chapters meet together at an appointed place for the benefit of the community. The chapter organization is striving to do these things and insists on better homes, better water supply, better farms, better roads, better stock, and better civic government for our Indian people. We realize that it takes a large amount of money to carry out all of our plans, but if our Government will help us, I feel sure the results will fully justify. There are now six community chapter houses finished, one at Klayetoh, Greaswood, Chin Lee, St. Michaels, Oak Spring, and Mabraschiti. There are two other buildings for the same purpose now building and which will be finished this summer, one at Ganado and one at Twin Lake. It is the hope of this chapter in building a meeting house of this kind and in the work they are doing that they may encourage help from Washington which will prepare them for the civilization that is coming upon us, and it is already here. These are some of the laws that have been adopted at Ganado, which are as follows: 1. If a Government employee is found intoxicated, he should leave the Government service. 2. If an Indian is found gambling, he should be punished. 3. If an Indian is found to be a hindrance rather than a help to the association, he should be punished. 4. A family that lives under the irrigation ditch should have oneof their family help with the cleaning of the ditch when needed or called on. 5. If any man brings a heavy charge against his neighbor for damage done to his crops, he must show that he had at least 5-barbed wire around his fence in order for his complaint to have any consideration. Among other things over which we have no jurisdiction or have any authority to act is: We are not able to say to Mr. Womack to come back to Tsibitah to fix water that he improved a year ago or so and gave a little water for a short time and then entirely disappeared. We were compelled to dig a well in another place, from which we draw water with a rope and bucket for our domestic purposes. One place that I know of where a windmill was erected a number of years ago and got out of order. It was never repaired, with the result that it has gone to pieces and now little of it remains. There is another place, 27 miles from Keams, where the windmill has not been working for several years. At still another place a windmill tower blew over and has never been rebuilt and is still lying on the ground. There is still another near White Cone which produces good water when operating but has not been in operation for several years, even though it has been reported nearly every year, and the Indians have received numerous promises from the field men to repair it, but it is not yet repaired. Personally, I do not know any Indian who recommends Mr. Hagerman, but I do know both from Indian delegates and common people that Mr. Hagerman ought not to be allowed to supervise over the Navajo General Council. When this $100,000 passed through Mr. Hagerman without Indians' consent it created a very discouraged feeling among the Navajos and gave a thought of taxation without representation. The Navajo Indians are intelligent, thrifty, patriotic, sincere, and kind-hearted. They can express themselves in their own language, but when the same is interpreted into English it does not always carry the full meaning. With a better understanding between the white man and the Indian, we will find out that the Navajo has a great deal in him that our Great White Chief has said: This Government of the people, by the people, and for the people shall not perish from the earth. Senator FRAZIER. I want to congratulate you and your people on behalf of this committee for the remarkable work you have done in showing your willingness to get out and do something for yourselves without pay, donating your labor and your good hard work in building these chapter houses for your own benefit. The regulations you have adopted in regard to what you term as laws, it seems to me, is very, very good. I am informed by the engineer here, who has charge of the irrigation project, that the Indians up in your territory of Ganado donated $1,500 worth of labor on the irrigation ditches last year. That is very commendable, and that is what this committee is interested in, and I am sure the Indian Department and the Congress of the United States will be interested in seeing the Indians do something for themselves. We want to help you, so that you can put yourself in position to make a fairly good living for yourselves. Mr. CURLEY. Thank you. Senator FRAZIER. We appreciate the good work you are doing. You feel in these chapters your own people are capable of choosing officers that will adequately represent your people and give you a square deal? Mr. CURLEY. Yes. I agree with Mr. Hunter that just as soon as we are capable among the Navajo leaders we should place them over the chapters, and you get something with force behind them. Senator FRAZIER. We hope many of your boys and girls will complete their education in the agricultural colleges or State colleges, so that they can come back here and take their places as teachers and instructors in your own school and, therefore, your people will have more confidence in your own people than in outsiders. Mr. GRORUD. You said something about a windmill you have been unable to have repaired. What about that? Mr. CURLEY. Over at Ganado. I may say they are going to have an exhibit on the ground, a landscape view, placing every windmill that is working and those that are not working at the different places. They are going to give the whole thing for you. You will se it to-morrow. Senator WHEELER. You mean the number that are not working? Mr. CURLEY. Yes; all over the territory. Senator WHEELER. Why have they not been repaired? Mr. CURLEY. Unable from the Government standpoint to visit them; it is so big a territory perhaps, but anyway it is not repaired. Senator WHEELER. Well, they ought to be repaired. Mr. SCATTERGOOD. Do you not think the Indians can take care of the windmills themselves? Mr. CURLEY. It is a good thing you said that, Mr. Commissioner. I think they can take care of part of it. We are not cooperating with one another as strong as we ought to. Mr. SCATTERGOOD. If there are any broken parts, the Government ought to furnish those, but it seems to me the Indians could easily keep a windmill going. Mr. HUNTER. I have no record or knowledge of any definite reports being made of windmills being out of order. I pass those reports, if there are any, on to the irrigation service when I receive them. Of course, I have received reports from time to time. Senator WHEELER. Who is in charge of the irrigation service over there? Mr. HUNTER. Mr. Womack is the field man out here, and Mr. Neuffer. Mr. NEUFFER. I can probably clear that up. Without funds we have only one man who covers the Southern Navajo jurisdiction and a good deal of the Northern Navajo and Western Navajo territory. These windmills are isolated. As he can get to them he repairs them, but sometimes one is missed and sometimes he does not get it. That is one weakness in the department is windmills and as soon as we can get the Navajos so they can work out in the different communities and keep those windmills up, we can get somewhere with the windmills. Windmills, however, are not what I would call very successful. Senator WHEELER. How many of them are out of repair over there? |