SURVEY OF INDIAN CONDITIONS THROUGHOUT

THE UNITED STATES

SATURDAY, MAY 16, 1931

UNITED STATES SENATE,

SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE COMMITTEE ON INDIAN AFFAIRS,

Fort Defiance, Ariz. The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at Fort Defiance, Ariz., Hon. Lynn J. Frazier (chairman), presiding.

Present: Senators Frazier (chairman), and Wheeler.

Also present: Senator Ashurst, ex officio member of the subcommittee; Hon. J. Henry Scattergood, Assistant Commissioner of Indian Affairs; A. A. Grorud, special assistant to the subcommittee; Nelson A. Mason, clerk, and F. S. Milberg, official reporter.

Senator FRAZIER. The hearing will come to order. This hearing is a continuation of hearings we have been holding at various places throughout the States of Arizona and New Mexico, and one or two in Colorado. The hearings are held under authority of a resolution adopted by the United States Senate, authorizing the Committee on Indian Affairs of the Senate to investigate and study the condition. of the Indians throughout the United States. We are here to find the exact condition of the Indians. We want the true facts of the situation. We want the Indians who are called upon to testify here to feel free to tell just what the condition of the Indians are, how they are getting along and to make any suggestion they desire to make as to how the conditions may be improved. We are anxious to find out the facts of the situation so that we may report back to the Senate and to Congress, perhaps recommending legislation that will benefit the Indian situation in general.

We will call as our first witness Mr. Hunter, the superintendent, in order to get a general outline of the situation here.

JOHN G. HUNTER was thereupon called as a witness and after being first duly sworn, testified as follows:

Senator FRAZIER. State your full name.

Mr. HUNTER. John G. Hunter.

Senator FRAZIER. What is your title in the Indian service?

Mr. HUNTER. My title is superintendent and special disbursing officer, Southern Navajo jurisdiction.

Senator FRAZIER. How much territory does the Southern Navajo jurisdiction comprise?

Mr. HUNTER. The Southern Navajo jurisdiction comprises approximately 5,000,000 acres, almost 4,000,000 of which is on the reservation.

Senator FRAZIER. How long have you been here?

Mr. HUNTER. I have been here two years and five months. Senator FRAZIER. How many Indians have you in this jurisdiction?

Mr. HUNTER. According to the 1930 census, we had 15,880 Indians. Senator FRAZIER. Fifteen thousand?

Mr. HUNTER. Fifteen thousand, eight hundred and eighty.

Senator FRAZIER. How many subdivisions is the southern Navajos divided up into, subagencies, and so forth?

Mr. HUNTER. We have three centers, or there are four centers. There are three boarding schools and one day school, if that answers your question.

Senator FRAZIER. Three boarding schools and one day school. You have a boarding school here?

Mr. HUNTER. Yes, sir.

Senator FRAZIER. How many pupils in your school here?

Mr. HUNTER. This school has a capacity of 400. We run a little bit over that.

Senator FRAZIER. Your other boarding schools?

Mr. HUNTER. Chin Lee, 140; and Tohatchi, 200.
Senator FRAZIER. That is your school?

Mr. HUNTER. We have mission schools in addition to that. That is all the Government schools.

Senator FRAZIER. Well, the mission schools

Mr. HUNTER. We have a 325-capacity school at St. Michaels operated by the Catholic people. We have a 150-capacity boarding school at Ganado, which is operated by the Presbyterian people. We have a day school at Lukachukai, 30 capacity, operated by the Catholics, and then there is a small boarding school within the jurisdiction but off the reservation operated by the Christian Reform people. It has 40 capacity.

Senator FRAZIER. How many children from this jurisdiction go away to nonreservation schools or away from the reservation? Mr. HUNTER. We have about 1,500.

Senator FRAZIER. About 1,500?

Mr. HUNTER. That is an approximate figure.

Senator FRAZIER. Then, there are about 2.800 children in schools from this district?

Mr. HUNTER. That is just a little bit high. I think we will have to cut that down to a total of 2.400. That would make it 1.200 instead of 1,500 away to school.

Senator WHEELER. How many children have you of school age that are not in school?

Mr. HUNTER. We have between 2,500 and 3,000 children of school age not in school.

Senator WHEELER. Between what ages?

Mr. HUNTER. Between 6 and 18.

Senator FRAZIER. No schools for them to go to?

Mr. HUNTER. No schools for them to attend. Every school is filled-reservation and nonreservation.

Senator WHEELER. What have you with reference to making recommendations for new schools to take care of that 2,500 or 3,000 children who are out of school?

Mr. HUNTER. I have recommended that the Chin Lee School, the capacity, and the Tohatchi School, be doubled; that two new schools of 300 capacity each be established; that 10 day schools be authorized, and then that the public schools now available would care for 1,500. Senator WHEELER. When did you make that recommendation? Mr. HUNTER. Well, I made that recommendation this year covering the entire situation. Previous to that time I recommended the establishment of day schools, but I did not undertake to suggest or to set out a complete program until recently.

Senator FRAZIER. Who was the agent here prior to the time that you were here?

Mr. HUNTER. Mr. Duclos.

Senator FRAZIER. Had he made recommendations to the Indian Department at Washington with reference to more schools?

Mr. HUNTER. I do not believe he did.

Senator WHEELER. It seems to me it is a strange situation to find 3,000 children out of school here on this reservation and approximately 1,500 on the northern Navajo Reservation. What I am trying to do is to find out who is responsible for a situation of that kind.

Mr. HUNTER. I might say, Senator, that it was not clearly determined just how many children we had in school until about two years ago, when a complete and quite accurate census was taken of these people.

Senator WHEELER. Somebody is responsible in the department for not making an accurate survey, so that the department would know how many children were out of school and how many were in school, and then if the department failed to act the department was negligent or else Congress was negligent. I do not know where the responsibility lies, but I would like to find out, if I can, where the responsibility lies for this neglect of the Indian children, because it certainly is neglect on the part of somebody, either on the part of the Indian Bureau or on the part of Congress and those who have to do with the appropriation of the money or with the local agency. I would like to find out just who it is, if I can, who is responsible for such a situation here.

Let me ask you this: Do most of these Indian children want to go to school?

Mr. HUNTER. Most of them do.

Senator WHEELER. Do most of their parents want them to go to school?

Mr. HUNTER. The Indian parents are anxious for them to attend school.

Senator WHEELER. Let me ask the assistant commissioner what recommendations have been made, what has been done with reference to correcting this situation, Mr. Scattergood?

Mr. SCATTERGOOD. Well, the whole subject has been under discussion for at least a year, I think. The different ideas presented have been assembled and a program is in process of being now developed. I think that the present budget, just about completely developed, will include in it sundry suggestions.

Senator WHEELER. It seems to me this calls for something more than just discussion. It seems to me it calls for action on the part of Congress or upon the part of somebody when you have 3,000 children who are out school here.

Mr. SCATTERGOOD. I think you must bear in mind that that includes ages from 6 years up. It makes it a little bit worse than it would be if we had it only from 7 years up, which we believe for other reasons would be better as the year to start.

Senator WHEELER. It may possibly be

Mr. SCATTERGOOD. That might reduce the number somewhat. It is a large problem, and it is one which has to be immediately faced, both by the department and by Congress.

Senator WHEELER. Has the department made any recommendation to Congress with reference to this problem of more schools here, and has Congress failed to act?

Mr. SCATTERGOOD. Well, I do not think it has been presented in a large sense yet. I think it has reached the stage where we have come to that point. These facts have only recently come to the knowledge of anyone.

Senator WHEELER. Certainly somebody must have had the facts. Somebody must have known that these children were not going to school and were not getting an education, but that they were being permitted to roam all over the plains here without any education. Somebody is responsible for it. If it is Congress that is responsible for it we ought to know it. If it is the Indian Department we ought to know it. If it is the local agency we ought to know it. But somebody is responsible for it. These Indians have been neglected. Their schooling has been neglected. You are just bringing up a lot of children in ignorance that ought to have an education. Under our system of government it is a shame, in my judgment, that the Government would neglect these Indian children as it has on this Navajo Reservation. I do not know who is responsible for it.

Mr. HUNTER. I might say, Senator Wheeler, it has only been the past few years that the Navajos themselves have been making urgent request for schools.

Senator WHEELER. It had not ought to be necessary for the Indians to have to make the request. That should have been initiated by the local Indian bureau officials on this reservation and should have been initiated on the part of the bureau in Washington. What should have hapened is this: Instead of the Indian having to come to the department and initiating a program of education, why, it ought to come from the other end, the department urging upon these Indians the necessity for an education in order to fit them to compete in our civilization. Sooner or later these Indians are going to become citizens of New Mexico and Arizona, and it is not only for the interest of the people of Arizona and New Mexico to see that they are educated and become self-supporting and valuable citizens but it is likewise of vital interest to the Government itself.

Mr. HUNTER. It is certainly one of our greatest problems and greatest needs.

Senator FRAZIER. What about the health conditions on this reservation?

Mr. HUNTER. Generally speaking, the health conditions are quite favorable. We have four Government hospitals, a general hospital at Fort Defiance of 150-bed capacity, a tubercular sanitarium of 40-bed capacity, a general hospital at Chin Lee of 16-bed capacity, and a general hospital at Tohatchi of 16-bed capacity. In addition