as fully as they both want to go into it. That is my own idea about it. Senator FRAZIER. That is perfectly satisfactory. Have you any other statement to make? Senator WHEELER. As I understand it, your statement is not with reference to anything that happened at the Phoenix school? Mr. BLACK HOOP. No, sir. I wish to make another statement. I am willing to meet Mr. Brown at any time. Senator ASHURST. What would be the most convenient date for you? Senator FRAZIER. We will have to figure that out. Senator THOMAS. The chairman will arrange that, if we have to go through with the matter. We will give both of them all the time they want. Mr. BLACKHOOP. I was instructed to go to Phoenix to the Senate hearing, that the matter was to be discussed in Phoenix, Arizona, at a later date. At your suggestion, Mr. Ashurst, they were to be there, and the matter was to be discussed there, and I was indirectly instructed to be there. Senator ASHURST. I fully expected you to testify there? Mr. BLACK HOOP. At my own expense I went down there and lost those days in work, and I only get $3 a day here, and I can not hardly Senator ASHURST. I hope the committee will be able to pay your expenses and per diem wherever you testify. Senator WHEELER. We can do that. Mr. BLACKHOOP. The next thing I would like to present at this time is about-I suppose Senator Ashurst will cut me off again. Senator ASHURST. I have no such disposition. I do not care what you say about anybody present who can defend himself. Mr. BLACKHOOP. I wish to at this time ask the committee in reference to this highly organized scheme here. I think I have the right to do so. I am a citizen of the United States. I vote. I am from North Dakota. I emphasize that because that is my home. Under the circumstances, therefore, I ask the committee to produce the letter that Mr. Miller wrote to Superintendent McCarty, of the Santa Fe Railroad Co., deteriorating my character in order that I answer it when the committee come up to Oraibi, that I be in position to answer as a result of that letter. I am going to be at Oraibi at my own expense. At Oraibi Senator WHEELER. Who is Miller? Mr. BLACK HOOP. Superintendent Miller, of Keams Canyon of Arizona. This man was trying to interfere with my job with the Santa Fe. Senator WHEELER. If he has written a letter, he ought to be present, if you have a statement to make. Mr. BLACKHOOP. As a result of it I was questioned at the office here more than once. I wired to the Senate committee, and I think they informed the Indian Office and I think the Indian Office sent Mr. Thompson, supervisor of the educational department, if I am not mistaken, down here. He came here, and I hope he squared it for me at Mr. Hitchcock's office. I want that letter, so I can meet Mr. Miller at Keams Canyon or Oraibi, Ariz., when that date comes. Mr. SCATTERGOOD. May I say on behalf of the department that the Indian Office had no sympathy whatever with the action of Mr. Miller in that respect, and we wrote to him stating so. It is our great pleasure that Mr. Blackhood has this job here. The last thing in the world we ought to do is to interfere with him. I rejoice to think he has such a good job, and I am proud of what he showed an Indian could do as bandmaster to-night. Senator WHEELER. Do I understand that one of your superintendents or one of your agencies wrote a letter trying to keep an Indian from getting a job? Mr. SCATTERGOOD. As I understand it, he wrote a letter to the superintendent of this time somewhat intimating that Mr. Blackhoop had been a trouble maker. I do not remember what he said, but whatever he did say he ought not to have said. There is no need of his following this man or no need of hounding him, and we called him down for doing so. Senator WHEELER. It was a most reprehensible thing for any man in the Government service to do and he ought to be reprimanded severely for doing so. It is hard enough for an Indian to get a job as it is without somebody trying to blackmail him and keeping him from getting a job. Mr. SCATTERGOOD. That is the way we felt about it. Mr. BLACK HOOP. If this committee wish Senator THOMAS. I suggest that we ask the Indian Department to secure a copy of that letter and send it to the chairman forthwith. Mr. BLACKHOOP. I think, Mr. Chairman, the original copy of that letter is on file in the Santa Fe office. Perhaps Mr. Kettering can answer that. Maybe the original copy is filed here in the office. Mr. KETTERING. I keep all such records as that on file. Mr. BLACKHOOP. Mr. Kettering was present when I was confronted as a result of that letter. He may at your wish testify as to the nature of the letter. Senator FRAZIER. You want to remember Mr. Miller is not present and the superintendent of the Santa Fe is not present, so do not say anything about it. I am not an attorney and I am not used to trying lawsuits, but I do have a sense of justice, and it seems to me you should be given an opportunity to speak. Mr. BLACKHOOP. I think the citizens of Winslow will agree with me that I am a citizen of the United States and I have just as much right as anybody to abide by the law that they might present to me. I have a witness here in this audience that I would like to present at this time, that city marshal, Mr. Rube Neill, of this city-I do not recall the exact date-in some form of secret service work for Mr. Miller-he told some of the Indian boys right here or the Indian boys here I was a trouble maker, an agitator, and I do not know what else he told them, but that they should keep away from me and that they should not give me testimonials should I ask for them. Furthermore, I went to him. I had Mr. Sweeney, an attorney at law. I went to him as a witness and when I asked Mr. Rube Neill what trouble, what harm I had caused since I came to Arizona, and although I shall have to embarrass the ladies in this audience, I would like to use, if I may be permitted to do so, the same language he used. He said, "That is none of your God damn business. Keep your mouth shut and attend to your own business." I repeated to him that as an officer of the law may I make the same request that "you keep your God damn mouth shut and attend to your own damn business. I will stay within my own fence, and you stay within your own fence." He came up to me and was going to hit me, and I told him to go ahead and hit me. He said, "Do you want me to put you in jail?" I said, "No, sir." Then keep your damn mouth shut and get to hell out of here." An officer of the law that uses that kind of disposition, attitude, and voice before a citizen of the United States, he ought to be taken out of here and put somewhere else. Furthermore, this same officer, may it please the Senate committee Senator WHEELER. Who is this officer? Mr. BLACKHOOP. The city marshal. Senator WHEELER. We have not anything to do with city marshals. Mr. BLACK HOOP. I merely make this reference that it was a reflection upon my character and it was the work of Miller. It is the work of Miller, and I wish to make this statement at this time. Should the committee wish, some of those Indians here can testify to this. Do you wish me to present my witnesses, what he said when he told the Indian boys to keep away from me? I have the witnesses here. Senator FRAZIER. I do not think that is necessary. Senator WHEELER. You understand this committee has not any right to go into the action of this city and the city's officers or the county officers or the State officers. Mr. BLACK HOOP. I do understand that, but I want to make mention of that at this time because it is the work of Miller. Senator FRAZIER. You say it is the work of Miller, but what proof have you that it is? Senator WHEELER. Let us call the officer in here and ask him whether Miller gave him any information along that line. Mr. BLACK HOOP. I wish that could be done. Senator ASHURST. The committee desires that Mr. Neill be brought forward. Will some citizen volunteer to request Mr. Neill to be present? Mr. BLACKHOOP. Senate committee, I merely want to bring this out because I have nothing against this man, nor have I caused any harm in this city that my name should be used in this way. In one of the expressions he used he said, "Are you trying to be an attorney for all the Indians here?" I said, "Yes; that is what I went to school for, is to help my people if I can," and I think, if it please the committee, including the commissioner, I have the right to do it if I stay within the boundary line. I do not expect to do any further than that. I am not an agitator; I am not a Bolshevist, and I am doing what is required of me. I am abiding by the law. I am just an American citizen. I never was inside a court; I never was inside a prison, and my name is still clean. If you do not think so, I hope the people here will verify that statement. Senator FRAZIER. I think your record is all right. Mr. BLACK HOOP. Now, while Mr. Neill is being called for, I would like to mention at this time that we have here my car foreman. I would like to ask him at this time to testify whether I am a good employee, a good band leader, or in general whatever he wants to say. 26465-32-PT 18-13 Senator FRAZIER. That is not necessary. He gave you a clean bill of health, along with the rest of them. Now make the balance of your statement as brief as possible. Mr. BLACKHOOP. We have an Indian nurse in the colony that is doing very good nursing. She is only getting $45 a month and is doing very nice; hired by the United States Indian Service. At your convenience, will you ask her to tell you about the conditions. the sanitary conditions and what they are in general in this Indian colony as well as in the city here? I have here also, a letter I would like to hand to the committee to be put in as a part of the record in this hearing in answer to the additional charges made by Superintendent Brown. It is at your disposal. Senator FRAZIER. You keep it and enter it in the record at Oraibi. Senator ASHURST. Put the letter in the record when we reach Oraibi and I will not object at all. Or Mr. Grorud will keep it. (Witness excused.) (The letter above referred to and correspondence relating thereto are as follows:) DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR, OFFICE OF INDIAN AFFAIRS, Hon. LYNN J. FRAZIER, Senate Indian Committee, Washington, D. C. DEAR SIR: I have the honor to herewith transmit the letter, with answers received, you asked me to send the committee, during the hearing at Oraibi, Ariz., and at Winslow also. You are advised this letter was not in any way intended to hurt Mr. Blackhoop, though he had been on the reservation and attacked the Government severely, but was written solely in an official effort to prevent trouble on the reservation among the Indians, who are easily excited. Neither have I taken up the matter further, on the advice of the office. Santa Fe Railroad, Winslow, Ariz. DEAR SIR: It has been reported to me that one of your Indian employees, F. David Blackhoop, has been on this reservation without a legal permit from this agency for the purpose of causing trouble and inciting these Indians against the policies of the Government. It was thought best you be made acquainted with this complaint and be asked to use your influence to have him attend to his own business if he wishes to keep cut of trouble in this vicinity. If he continues to bother us, coming in here through our back door unbeknown to us and addressing groups of our Indians with malicious intent, we will have to take steps to cause him considerable trouble. He has been so advised. He is considered a trouble maker among Indians. In taking supper the other night with the leaders of the Indian colony in Winslow I spoke to them about this matter, refraining from making any complaint against Blackhoop. These leaders have in mind the improvement of that colony with the assistance of men in the service and subsequent improvement of morale and work among them with your company. We are assisting them in every way possible to make this improvement through getting good men. doing their work well, and assisting the Santa Fe and the town as all best citizens should. We are proud of that colony and of its efforts to amount to something and wish to do everything we can to help it. Sincerely, EDGAR K. MILLER, Superintendent. THE ATCHISON, TOPEKA & SANTA FE RAILWAY CO., Mr. EDGAR K. MILLER, T-21104 January 18, 1931. Superintendent Hopi Agency, Keams Canyon, Ariz. MY DEAR MR. MILLER: I have your letter January 10 re F. David Blackhoop, and have referred the same to Master Mechanic Hitchcock, under whom he is employed. Yours very truly, E. E. MCCARTY. WINSLOW, January 19, 1931. Mr. EDGAR K. MILLER, Superintendent Hopi Agency, Keams Canyon, Ariz. DEAR SIR: Your letter of January 10 to Superintendent McCarty, which has to do with the personal record of F. D. Blackhoop, was by him referred to me. I had previously received a report of a similar nature from the superintendent of Leupp Indian School, and we have had Blackhoop under observation and have kept a close check on his actions since that time, and while I am free to say there has been nothing noted to which we could take exceptions in his actions, as far as we know he has conducted himself in every way as he should; but there is a possibility, of course, that he is doing underground work among the Indians that is detrimental to the service, but I have had a personal talk and interview with Mr. Blackhoop, and he wanted to tell me the whole history of his trouble, with which I was not particularly interested, but I simply informed him I did not care to have the Indians in any colony here at Winslow involved in any way, or mixed up in his troubles; that if I heard of him discussing them with him, of factions forming in the colony taking sides one way or the other, he would be immediately dismissed from the service; but up to the present time, as I stated before, there is nothing in his actions that would warrant his dismissal from the service. He is being closely watched, and, if it appears he is causing trouble among the Indians in any way, action will be taken. I have always gotten along splendidly with the Indians, and this company is interested in their welfare; and we are not going to allow any disturbing influences to interfere, and we are not interested in any way in Blackhoop's troubles. I appreciate very much the information given in this letter, and, thanking you, I wish to remain Yours truly, W. D. HITCHCOCK, Master Mechanic. R. L. NEILL was thereupon called as a witness, and, after being first duly sworn, testified as follows: Senator FRAZIER. State your official position. Mr. NEILL. Marshal of the town of Winslow. Senator FRAZIER. How long have you been in that position? Mr. NEILL. About six years. Senator FRAZIER. The statement was made by David Blackhoop, who testified a short time ago-perhaps we had better have the reporter read the testimony to you. (The previous testimony given by Witness Blackhoop was read to the witness, as follows:) I went to him as a witness and when I asked Mr. Rube Neill what trouble, what harm, I had caused since I came to Arizona, and although I shall have to embarrass the ladies in this audience, I would like to use, if I may be permitted to do so, the same language he used. He says: "That is none of your God damn business. Keep your mouth shut and attend to your own business." I repeated to him that as an officer of the law may I make the same request that "you keep your God damn mouth shut and attend to your own damn business. I will stay within my own fence and you stay within your own fence." He came |