card it, spin it, dye it, weave it, and turn it into a finished product. Is that correct?

Mr. BORUM. That is correct.

Senator THOMAS. In that particular, then, the Indians are a factory?

Mr. BORUM. Yes, sir.

Senator THOMAS. And the problem is not to furnish them with the material but to find a market for their product.

Mr. BORUM. That is the big problem.

Senator THOMAS. At this time you do not have a market for the product; is that correct?

Mr. BORUM. We can dispose of the rugs fairly well, but most of the traders do not have a market,

Senator THOMAS. If you had a better market and if the other traders had a better market, would not that be reflected onto the Indians and encourage them to make more rugs?

Mr. BORUM. We could pay them better prices for what they bring in also.

Senator THOMAS. That would mean better houses, better clothing, and better food?

Mr. BORUM. Better living conditions.

Mr. SCATTERGOOD. Do these traders wholesale their product to eastern dealers, for example?

Mr. BORUM. Yes, sir; that is practically the only way we have of disposing of it. We have very little tourist travel out here.

Senator THOMAS. These wholesale houses necessarily get a very considerable discount over what they get retail?

Mr. BORUM. Well, our prices are just about the same. There is: not very much difference. If we sell retail we sell one rug as a cash proposition. We perhaps do not have to bundle it up, do not have to send it away, and do not have to wait 60 or 90 days for our money. It is cash right there.

Senator THOMAS. Could you get the same scale of prices from a large shipment if it were shipped to a distributor somewhere else? Mr. BORUM. I did not understand that.

Senator THOMAS. Could you get as high price for a larger shipment of rugs as you can sell them individually to a tourist?

Mr. BORUM. Naturally, the tourists do not know the value of the rug, and we get more than we could sending them out, although as a rule

Senator THOMAS. Do these Indians use cotton warps very much? Mr. BORUM. They do not in this district.

Senator THOMAS. Do any of the Navajo makers use cotton warps? Mr. BORUM. They do in some places, but not in Leupp jurisdiction. Senator THOMAS. Some one spoke of the old wool making a better rug than the new wool.

Mr. BORUM. Yes, sir.

Senator THOMAS. Do you agree with that?

Mr. BORUM. Yes, sir.

Senator THOMAS. Explain that to us.

Mr. BORUM. The old wool is not kinky. It is straight, and it has not any grease in it. The new wool is greasy; it is hard to spin.

The rug is not as smooth. One has to know the art of spinning to explain the difference.

Senator THOMAS. Is it not the old, shaggy, long fiber wool that makes it easy for the Indians to card?

Mr. BORUM. It is straighter; it is much easier to card.

Senator THOMAS. Could we equip the Indians with a simple card machine to help them overcome that difficulty?

Mr. BORUM. We have tried to card and tried getting a spinning wheel, but they do not take to them very readily.

Senator THOMAS. If they would take to them, could they overcome that difficulty?

Mr. BORUM. I do not know.

Senator THOMAS. Do not the Indians have to wash the wool when it is old wool?

Mr. BORUM. They should, but they do not always, but by carding— the dirt does not stick to the wool. By carding it it takes all of the dirt out of it, practically.

Senator THOMAS. Have you got any further recommendations to make?

Mr. BORUM. No, sir.

(Witness excused.)

NEIL NISHI was thereupon called as a witness and, after being first duly sworn, testified, through Mr. Gorman (who was sworn as an interpreter), as follows:

Senator FRAZIER. Are you from Red Lake?

The INTERPRETER. Tolchaco.

Senator FRAZIER. Have you a statement you want to make to the committee?

The INTERPRETER. Yes, sir. He is wondering about that trader who testified a while ago, whether he told the truth about not paying cash for the rugs that they bring, and then whether he told the truth that the rugs that they weave are not of much value. He wants to know whether he told that or not?

Senator FRAZIER. He did not understand what the agent said? The INTERPRETER. No; he did not. He asks that question whether or not he told the truth about that; about not paying them any

money.

Senator FRAZIER. He told about that.

The INTERPRETER. Another thing concerning employment of the Navajos: Whenever there is some kind of employment, instead of employing the Navajos, why, it seems like they employ some other people other than the Navajos. All my people need work, he says, they need work.

Senator FRAZIER. Well, they have some Navajos employed here.

The INTERPRETER. Another thing is that the agent does not look after the children as well as he should. Last winter one of the young boys ran away from here and froze to death. He feels it would be better instead of having some white person at the head of them to appoint some Navajos to look after them. [Alonzo Yazzif.]

Senator FRAZIER. What else?

The INTERPRETER. About three weeks ago his daughter's girl had a hemorrhage, and he sent for the doctor, and the doctor never showed up, and he is wondering why the doctor is getting paid for visiting the sick or to stay here.

Senator FRAZIER. How far do you live from here?

The INTERPRETER. His daughter's girl lives right over in that direction, and the doctor wanted to know how many miles it was. Senator FRAZIER. Well, how many miles was it?

The INTERPRETER. These people do not have any conception of mileage. They just point out the distance, and we have to actually know the persons who know the mileage.

Mr. KANUнO. Eighteen miles.

Senator THOMAS. Ask him how old the boy was that froze to death?

The INTERPRETER. Six years old.

Senator THOMAS. I will ask the superintendent about this case, if he knows about it.

Mr. SCATTERGOOD. I have just given for the record an account of all the details.

'Senator THOMAS. I would like a brief statement of the circumstances.

Mr. BALMER. About dusk one evening the disciplinarian came to my office and reported that a small boy was missing. I immediately told him to get the larger boys rounded up and to start out over the country to try to locate the little fellow. At the same time I got a night watchman, who is a Navajo Indian, and sent him out horseback. He traveled about 30 miles back and forth across the country that night. He found the tracks two or three times but again lost them. He came back, and the next day we sent Mr. Jensen, who was a Navajo policeman, out. In a few hours we give him instructions to spare no expense in hiring Indians to look for the boy.

Senator THOMAS. What time of the year was this?

Mr. BALMER. November. I think.

Senator THOMAS. What kind of weather was it at that time? Mr. BALMER. It was not extremely cold, but it was quite cold. I believe we hired 15 Navajo Indians with horses to scout the country looking for the boy. It rained in the meantime and his tracks were washed out. It was five days before they found the boy, dead. His brother, who was heading the posse, found him. They put a cover over the body and came back here and got a casket, took it back up there and buried him.

Senator THOMAS. Where did they find him?

Mr. BALMER. About a mile and a half from a hogan up in the Chandler Butte country.

Senator THOMAS. How far is that from here?

Mr. BALMER. Twenty-five or 30 miles.

Senator THOMAS. How did the boy get up there?

Mr. BALMER. Evidently walked. In his path of travel we had inquired at different hogans.

Senator THOMAS. Where was the boy found?

Mr. BALMER. He was found close to the bottom of the Butte up there where very few Indians ever travel.

Senator THOMAS. Out in the open and unprotected?

Mr. BALMER. Yes, sir.

Senator THOMAS. Was the boy frozen to death?

Mr. BALMER. No, sir. He evidently died of exhaustion.

Senator FRAZIER. Do you know how long he had been gone before the disciplinarian discovered he was away?

Mr. BALMER. It could not have been but a very short time because the children had checked at their evening meal and they are again checked when they go to bed. It was at this time that he was found missing.

Senator FRAZIER. Between the evening meal and bedtime?

Mr. BALMER. Between the mealtime and bedtime.

Senator WHEELER. Had the boy been whipped?

Mr. BALMER. No, sir.

Senator THOMAS. Do you know the reason why the boy ran away? Mr. BALMER. It was his first year in school. He was probably homesick.

Senator THOMAS. Had the boy asked to go home?

Mr. BALMER. No, sir.

Senator THOMAS. Was he headed toward home?

Mr. BALMER. Yes, sir. The reason we put Indians on the job hunting for him was because we felt they knew the country much better than any of the white people here.

Senator THOMAS. Is there any information that has not been given to the committee that should be given to the committee? (Witness excused.)

HENRY BAHE was thereupon called as a witness and, after being first duly sworn, testified as follows:

Senator FRAZIER. What do you know about this runaway boy that died?

Mr. BAHE. At the present time I was not in this jurisdiction under Mr. Balmer. This is just what I heard what happened and what these Indians told me about it.

Senator FRAZIER. Where were you at that time?

Mr. BAHE. I was working up at Flagstaff and Tuba City for another Indian man. I was driving a truck on a freight line. I did not find out until two or three weeks later this had happened. There was only one boy lost. The way I feel about it now and the way the superintendent treat our tribe, it seems to me like kill the whole tribe. That is the way I feel about it. So I am up against him pretty hard on this proposition because the superintendent ought to at least let me know when this has happened and where it happened. Senator FRAZIER. Were you some relative of the boy?

Mr. BAHE. I am not a relative but I feel like it is my relative. Senator FRAZIER. Just because he was a member of the same tribe? Mr. BAHE. Yes, sir.

Senator FRAZIER. Well, the superintendent should not go around and let everybody know this had happened.

Mr. BAHE. Well, he knows me, right here about 3 miles.
Senator FRAZIER. You were working here at that time?

Mr. BAHE. I am not really to blame about that, but he ought to know about that.

Senator FRAZIER. It was unfortunate that the little boy should get lost and die, but under the circumstances I think the superintendent did everything he could to find him. He sent all these boys out and hired Indians to go out and hunt for him on horseback.

Mr. BAHE. Yes, sir.

Senator FRAZIER. We are just as sorry as you are that the boy was lost.

Mr. KANUHO. I think I better testify. I was one of the fellows looking for the lost boy. I was employed here bringing in school kids and I was the one that got this boy from the mother. I happened to come to her hogan and tell her that she had some children that ought to go to school and she consented right away she would send the boy. So I brought the boy in and went back to the reservation in the Casa Butte district. While I was up there I happened to be on my way from Indian Wells or the trading store there with another man, Peter, here, and we heard from the trader that Red, the Policeman, and another policeman from that district up there, were on their way to Sand Spring. That is in the far west line of this Casa Butte district; that they were going over there looking for a boy that ran away from school from Leupp. They did not seem to know just who the boy was. The way they got it it must be a boy from over there that was excused last year on account of poor health but was returned during the fall, and they thought that was the boy. So they went over there to look for him. If I remember right, they looked over there two days for the boy. Then they came back. There was sheep dipping going on at Indian Wells and they inquired there. They did not know what size he was, or who he was, but they just thought it was a certain boy by the name of Marty. That is who they thought it was, but they found out it was not him.

So they started to inquire back and I believe they were out there two days if I remember right, and they came back over here and inquired more about it here at the school and found out it was this new boy that was brought in about nine days before, that I brought in. So I came in that day and we found out it was him. I did not know anything about it. I found out they were looking for the boy. So I went back the same night, I went out the next day, and we made over about 25 miles from here. There is a windmill over there and the Indians happened to see just a little pin track about four days since the boy was missing and Red Jensen had a car and he went up and got some Indians. If I remember right, they had about five Indians. Am I correct?

Mr. JENSEN. We got them out there and started to trail the boy. Senator THOMAS. We have had a pretty good statement as to the accident. Have you any complaint, or is there any complaint, against the superintendent because of his lack of activity in trying to locate the boy? That is the thing we are interested in.

Mr. KANUHO. I believe when the night watchman came back he should have sent some of the employees or some of the school boys, the big boys, out. I believe if they had gone out the next day when the night watchman reported he did not find the boy, I believe if they were sent out that same morning they could easily have overtaken the boy and brought him back.

Senator FRAZIER. Did they not go right out the next morning? Mr. KANUHO. No, sir; Red Jensen is the only one that went, but he went around by Winslow and went up to Casa Butte and went 30 miles farther than where the boy was.

Mr. BALMER. I do not know what way Red Jensen went when I sent him out.

Senator FRAZIER. Did they not know who he was and where he lived?