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world's literature through peer review and analysis and editing. It is essential; otherwise, we would have an unsorted pile of millions of manuscripts a year, and who is going to do anything to them, in terms of intellectual analysis, if the publishing societies do not perform and cannot perform their tasks under the law and protect the results, which are the content of the copies of the journals which they submit?

Next month I am going to Russia. I am going to talk about copyrights. Last May, the Russians decided to join in the Geneva Copyright Convention, as you know. They came to the publishing societies of the United States and Canada and other places, to my knowledge, proposing that they enter into copyright licensing agreements for our publications. They have been admitting that they have copied for many years—multiple copies, not single copies—multiple copies are simply multiple copies of single copies.

They have been publishing and republishing our material in Chemical Abstracts, and now they come to us and ask for licensing considerations. And we are ready to answer them.

The strange thing is that in our own country, we have not been approached by anyone about copyrights, in spite of the tremendous amount of copying that is taking place. Now, it is rather strange if I go to Russia to negotiate something that we cannot even deal with here.

I think we can deal here. I think we can negotiate properly if the law protects our property correctly.

I think, then, in closing, all I would like to say is that we are in favor of this dissemination of information. We spend millions of dollars a year on it. The libraries are some of our best customers. But I think if they are going to copy and join in the supplementary publishing scheme that they should help to pay for the initial costs of collecting journals and the content that they represent.

Thank you for your time.

Senator McCLELLAN. Now, what journals do you have there that you are using as an illustration?

Dr. Cairns. The Journal of the American Chemical Society which is a broad coverage journal of all of the elements of subdisciplines of chemistry.

I have in addition, Chemistry, which deals with that particular branch.

Senator MCCLELLAN. Let's just take one of them for an illustration; the first one.

Dr. Cairns. The Journal of the American Chemical Society is the major journal.

Senator McCLELLAN. How often is that published ?
Dr. CAIRNS. Every 2 weeks.
Senator McCLELLAN. How many subscribers do you have?
Dr. Cairns. I will ask Dr. Kenyon.
Dr. KENYON. Between 16,000 and 17,000.
Senator McCLELLAN. I beg your pardon?
Dr. KENYON. Between 16,000 and 17,000.
Senator McCLELLAN. Between 16.00 and 17,000.

Are the subscriptions adequate to pay for the cost of publication and distribution?

Dr. CAIRNS. At present, there is a close balance on the economics of journal publication. We derive about half of our costs directly from subscribers.

I would guess in the case of the Journal of the American Chemical Society—because it is highly academic and has no advertising, that it would be about two-thirds.

Senator McCLELLAN. What I am trying to get at-how is it financed now?

Have you been able to finance it? Dr. Cairns. We finance by subscription, by page charges. In some of the technology publications, we have advertising. And we just balance the budget. It is very difficult.

Senator MCCLELLAN. Now, talking about balancing the budget, assuming an article that you publish in there it constitutes a page. It occupies one page in your journal. How do you arrive at, and what would you undertake to say would be a fair charge of a copyright fee for the copying of one page that a library might want to copy and give to a patron?

Dr. CAIRNS. A single page would be pennies per page, somewhere
Senator McCLELLAN. Would be what?
Dr. CAIRNS. Pennies per page.
Senator McCLELLAN. A penny per page?
Dr. Cairns. Several cents a page.
Senator McCLELLAN. Several cents a page.

How do you arrive at it? How would a librarian know how much to collect?

Dr. Cairns. I think we should have something approaching a uniform charge or a uniform set of charges for various journals. Each journal in science and technology carries a distinguishing mark, a coden, which is a six-letter term, which characterizes that journal. It would be easy enough to group these journals under their codens at a specific price of a certain number of cents per page. Somewhere between 1 cent and 10 cents, I assume, would probably generate enough money to take care of their share of the composition costs of the material being copied.

Senator MCCLELLAN. All right.

We have another book in the library, a book of poems, that has been copyrighted. Somebody wants to copy that poem.

How would you arrive at what would be a fair compensation or copyright fee for that?

It is five verses, but it is on one page of a small book.

Would you make any differentiation between that poem and a scientific article?

Dr. Cairns. I have to confine my testimony to scientific and technical communication.

Senator McCLELAX. All right. I will point out, though, to you the problems that we have. We are trying to legislate on every particular kind of journal and every particular kind of publication and information that may be copyrighted.

Dr. Cairns. I do not envy you that problem, but I do not think I want to try to answer for you.

Senator McCLELLAN. We need some help, do you not see?

Dr. Cairns. We will help you on scientific and technological publi. cations, because that is something that we know.

Senator McCLELLAN. Thank you very much.
All right, Senator Burdick.

Senator BURDICK. Just a minute. I want to get your position this morning as clearly as I can. I do it by example.

I am going back to Williston High School again. Suppose a senior is doing a paper on chemistry and he goes to the library in Williston, and he finds a copy of your journal, and he wants to take it home and type it. He wants one page.

Is it your contention this morning that, unless he pays for it, he should not have it?

Dr. Cairns. This would seem to me, perhaps, to come pretty close to a very limited fair use, but my contention is that if there is a change in ownership involved in the transfer of copied material that, thereby, there has to be some accounting. Since it is only a matter of a few cents, I think it would not stand in the way in the process of communication in this particular instance.

Senator BURDICK. Your answer, then, is yes. You would not let him have it until he paid for it.

Dr. CAIRNS. Yes.
Mr. WEIL. I would like to speak to this.

The mechanisms by which these pennies per page could be collected are severalfold. One of them that we have heard about in the Special Libraries Association was the idea of a royalties tribunal, which in turn would, through the various collection mechanisms and various distribution mechanisms, distribute the few cents per page in the aggregate to the owners of the copyright. The library chore of recording could perhaps be done mechanically. It could be done by sampling. There are many techniques. So that the students involved, while he might, indeed, have to pay a few cents, or he might not have to pay a few cents, depending on how that library chose to operate. The mechanisms for collection and payment would not need to be donors.

Senator BURDICK. Well, I gather from your testimony that you would not permit the young man to have this material without paying for it.

Now, to get to the next question. In the libraries across the country, in my sort of country, you could not possibly set up a mechanism for distributing the money. Suppose you get this one page out of this book and pay 5 cents for it. Why, the postage to give you that 5 cents by mail would be more than that. And to keep a running account and to he keeping books would be impossible for small libraries.

The question is, either he gets it or he does not get it. It is a practical matter.

Mr. WEIL. No. There are mechanisms. Right now, that student if he wishes to use a machine for himself drops into it a dime or a quarter. So that the collection mechanism could be part of that dime or quarter which he puts in. How that money is distributed right now-most of it goes to the vendor who supplies the machine.

But there are methods that I mentioned-sampling; the Coden that was mentioned that would identify the journal is a method, also which could be electronically counted by the machine at the time of copy. The student would not need to be bothered. Right now, he must dron a dime or a quarter into the machine.

Senator BURDICK. You mean to say that the library at Williston has electronics, has got money for stuff like that?

Dr. CAIRNS. May I ask Counsel to answer?

Mr. Hanson. Senator, believe it or not, it does. And if it does not, it should have. I would suggest to you that, obviously, in any approach to this, you have to use common sense and practicality.

Senator BURDICK. That is right.

Mr. Hanson. The American Chemical Society is not interestedand I do not believe any other publisher is—in picking up the single page that a student is going to use. But remember, your premise was that he was going to take this out and copy it himself at home.

Senator BURDICK. No, no.

Mr. HANSON. If he sat down in the library and wanted to take whatever notes he wanted to out of that page, that is obviously a fair use under the settled law of the land.

I would suggest that what we are speaking to here is the practice that has arisen in the last few years of heavy copying by certain major metropolitan libraries, for the most part, which have made inroads into the publisher's ability to meet his costs, to make his material available. And I think this is really the problem that the committee must address.

Senator BURDICK. I understand the problem.

But in my hypothetical question, I did not have the young man taking the periodical out. I had him take the photostatic part home.

Dr. CAIRNS. There are other ways to meet your question other than an educational exemption, which I believe you were speaking to. I do not believe that we can have or afford an educational exemption, because we, in producing journals, are an essential link in the educational process. Therefore, we must have some means of recovery.

It might be through licensing through the library to allow themi to do this practice that you described, and it would be at their behest, And this, as a matter of fact, was at issue in the Williams and Wilkins case, of which we are a party in having submitted an amicus curiae brief. We are normally on the side of education and science, because this is our charter.

We are also interested in preserving the function of continued dissemination of scientific and chemical information, so we must come to a practical determination, just as you people must.

Senator McCLELLAN. Let your brief that you submitted be filed and be marked as an exhibit to your testimony. Or would you like to have it printed in the record ?

Dr. Cairns. Yes, we have submitted the full testimony for the record, and we also would ask the privilege, if you are agreeable, to let other scientific societies submit statements for the written record in the period of time to August 10.

Senator McCLELLAN. That is agreeable. They may do so.
Senator Fong?

Senator Fong. Are the articles in your magazine originally written by your people?

Dr. Cairns. These are articles that are originally written by scientists and engineers throughout the world.

Senator Fong. For your magazine?

Dr. Cairns. No. They are written in the first instance to record the works of the scientists and engineers. They are submitted for acceptance or rejection, or editing by the editors of our prospective periodicals, and they may or may not be accepted.

Senator Fong. Do you pay them for this?

Dr. CAIRNS. We do not. As a matter of fact, in most of the scholarly journals of which I have spoken, there is a system of page charges, in which the author pays up to $50 a page to help absorb the cost of publication. And this is recognized as a policy by the U.S. Government, as enunciated by the Federal Council on Science and Technology, I think, about 1963, that all these Federal grants can be used for the purpose of these charges-payment of page charges-on their scientific works into nonprofit journals.

Senator Fong. So actually, you have not paid for the article?

Dr. Cairns. We have not paid anything for the article. In fact, we usually get a page charge for publishing.

Senator Fong. Yes, and he pays you for it, certainly—for the publication ?

Dr. Cairns. He pays page charges at a rate of $50 a page for the scholarly journals.

Senator Fong. You say, since you publish it, the man who copies that should pay you or pay him?

Dr. Cairns. The man who publishes—who recopies--our publication should pay us so that we can be compensated for the costs of creating the first copy, before the overrun cost of thousands of copies, which we also have.

Senator Fong. So, then, you would enter into an agreement with the writer of the article.

Dr. Cairns. The writer of the article invariably puts the copyright with the American Chemical Society.

Senator Fong. I see.

Now, would you consider an exemption? Say, a little boy who takes the book home and copies, say, two or three pages of it, or he makes two or three xerox copies. Would you exempt such a child from paying any fee?

Dr. Cairns. No, the exemptions that you exemplify by this particular case would represent the educational exemption, and the educational process is a part of what we contribute to in our dissemination of scientific and technical literature. We are a part of the educational process, and if we are to continue to exist, we must be compensated the way anyone else does.

Senator Fong. So you think that this little boy should pay for that?

Dr. CAIRNS. He must, if we are not to have a general educational exemption.

Senator Fong. Now, who is going to do the collecting ?

Dr. Cairns. I would say that the person who is in the control point in this case would probably be the librarian.

Senator FONG. How would she know?
Dr. CAIRNS. Their Xerox machine is usually indoors.
Senator Fong. If he took the book home, how would she know?

Dr. CAIRNS. I do not think she would if he took the book home. It would be a little difficult to police. But that does not excuse not having a law to say that this is not legal.

Senator Fong. So, if he asks the librarian to Xerox the copy, then you want the librarian to collect the money?

Dr. Cairns. I see no other rational way to do this.

Senator Fong. Suppose in 1 month there is only one page that is copied, and you charge only cents for that copying. You expect the librarian to put all her time to collect that money for you and send it back to you?

Dr. Cairns. No. I would say that we would only be interested in substantial payments, and there might be a clause which would rule out anything below $1 or $10. We are talking here in terms of millions of dollars.

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