there is not available a clear definition of the nature of these programs or what they accomplish. It is known, too, that as many as 10 Cabinet-level departments and 14 or more executive agencies have programs devoted essentially to the same general area of activity; hence, it is evident there is a lot of overlapping in Federal functions.

Early last year I had the Library of Congress run a check on the number and cost only of advisory bodies that have been created by the Executive Office and/or Congress from 1964 to early 1969. I was amazed to discover that during that period some 150 advisory units have come into being, costing for operational costs in the vicinity of $1,647,144,000. It would appear from this that the American citizen is paying a rather handsome price for Government advice alone, a considerable amount of which is duplicated.

i This legislation would, in operation, work toward the establishment of priorities n Federal programs. This would have the effect of keeping excessive Federal spending in check and guarding against unbalanced budgets. The end products of this would be restrained national debt and a curb on economy-wrecking inflation. Our Federal Government would operate more efficiently and our taxpayers would enjoy a saving.

We must be careful about big government, because while bigness in itself is not always bad, bigness, where it interferes with efficient function, can prove fatal. We must remember the fate of the dinosaur, who grew so big that he bogged down in the swamps of the distant past and disappeared from the face of the earth-history records that a similar fate has befallen governments; hence, we must be on guard, and the legislation before this committee offers that surveillance.

PREPARED STATEMENT OF HON. SEYMOUR HALPERN, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF NEW YORK

Mr. Chairman, I support the proposed Program Information Act. In recent years, Federal grant-in-aid programs have become a very important vehicle in intergovernmental relations and have generally been accepted as desirable by the American people. But the application for and the adminstration of these programs has raised a number of problems, among them the very basic one of easily obtaining information on the requirements of the various Federal aid programs. The benefits derived from these programs are being undercut by an information crisis.

There are programs about which little is known and less can be learned. The "Catalog of Federal Domestic Aid," compiled by the Office of Economic Opportunity, although incomplete, was a start, a move in the right direction, but in itself not enough. My colleague from Delaware, the Honorable William V. Roth, Jr., realized the need for a comprehensive, easily understandable catalog of Federal aid programs, and he and his staff compiled such a study in 1969. It met with instant wide acclaim, fulfilling for the first time the very real need of all potential beneficiaries for one valid source of information. The catalog is indexed and has sufficient cross references.

The Roth study cataloged more than 1,200 Federal assistance programs in operation ranging from graduate scholarships to low-cost housing subsidies— administered by a variety of Federal agencies. Considering the proliferation of Federal aid programs, it is not surprising that State and local officials and private individuals have difficulties selecting the right program from among the maze of available loans and grants. Even if all the administering agencies were to issue catalogs of the programs under their jurisdiction, the problem would not be solved. The need is for one, and only one, catalog for all the Federal assistance programs to afford potential beneficiaries the opportunity to compare programs and to enable them to apply for the assistance that will best serve their situation. Such a catalog must be constantly revised and kept up to date to serve its purpose. One Congressman and his staff cannot be expected to carry that burden. It is clearly the responsibility of the Federal Government.

H.R. 17112, the Program Information Act, by directing the President annually to transmit to Congress just such a catalog and to keep it up to date by monthly revisions, answers the need for coordination, simplification, and consolidation of the various application forms and program guidelines. Our very form of government, a democratic federal system, is based on the free flow of information between the elected and electorate and between Federal and State and local officials. The Federal Government, as the source of grants-in-aid to State and local governments, must provide them with the basic information necessary to obtain that aid. I urge swift passage of the Program Information Act.

PREPARED STATEMENT OF HON. JOHN PAUL HAMMERSCHMIDT, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF ARKANSAS

Mr. Chairman, it is a pleasure to voice my strong support of H.R. 17112, the Program Information Act, which I am honored to cosponsor.

We all owe a debt of gratitude to Congressman Roth and members of his staff for their dedicated effort to provide a comprehensive up-to-date guide and description of all Federal assistance programs. He has ably presented the results of these endeavors and the need for and objective of this legislation. Untold savings in time and money will result for every citizen.

The catalog which the Government has been prodded into producing as a result of this effort, not only helps us in trying to help our constituents and our State and local governments in their attempts to receive assistance and services. The long-range result will be reorganization and realinement of Government functions to halt the incredibly wasteful duplication in the maize of Government. I am sure we have all been amazed by the information brought out by our colleague on the scope of Federal spending. It is imperative that we go forward with his objective-it will help us in fulfilling our legislative responsibilities. Foremost, we can obtain a better return on spending. It will help in solving our national problems and meeting the needs of our own localities.

I urge that immediate action be taken to approve this legislation.

PREPARED STATEMENT OF HON. MARGARET M. HECKLER, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF MASSACHUSETTS

Mr. Chairman, in the interest of better serving our constituents and simplifying the interaction of government at all levels I think the need is imperative for enactment of H.R. 17112, the Program Information Act.

I have cosponsored this legislation because I recognize, in particular, the plight of local elected officials who are often frustrated in their efforts to cut through red tape to secure Federal assistance in meeting urgent local needs. It is sometimes difficult to even find out where the red tape is which needs to be cut.

As Members of Congress, each of us is familiar with our own problems of cutting through a tangle of complex and overlapping Federal assistance programs to find the one most promising approach to solving the needs of constituents. None of this excess work is necessary if we take the simple step, as proposed in the bill, of regularly publishing an authoritative catalog of all Federal aid programs which provides up-to-date information on programs available, funding available, and how and where to apply for participation in these programs.

I can recall many recent incidents where the existence of such a catalog would have been most valuable to me and my constituents. For example, a city councilor of Fall River, Mass., the largest city in my district, inquired about existing Federal programs to help fund a proposed recreation area for the city. Developing this information required innumerable telephone calls to HUD and the Interior Department asking them to supply current information on matching grants programs and, after a time-consuming round robin search, eventual referral to a State agency which serves as liaison in these matters. I recall a recent letter from a private company seeking information on funds for private industry to install water pollution control equipment. Sometimes local officials come to Washington for meetings with Government agencies, but go back home just as bewildered as when they came.

Such information should be readily accessible in a widely circulated Federal catalog of domestic programs. I think that our colleague, the distinguished gentleman from Delaware (Mr. Roth), deserves the highest commendation for his exhaustive research which disclosed that more than $20 billion a year is spent on such programs-yet nobody knows what all the programs are or how to find out about them.

Such information must be kept current. I am pleased that the Bureau of the Budget, which would compile the catalog, has indorsed the objectives of the bill. However, I believe the subcommittee should reject any proposal to revise and update the catalog any less frequently than on a quarterly basis. Its data must necessarily be reliable and current

Such information will also be useful to civic organizations, which want to encourage action on local problems but do not know to which part of Government they should turn to launch a particular project.

Mr. Chairman, valuable time is lost by both the public generally and the Congress due to the lack of this source of factual information. We need to modernize Government and its procedures. I urge the passage of this bill.

PREPARED STATEMENT OF HON. JAMES A. McCLURE, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF IDAHO

Mr. Chairman, there is little that I can add to the statement made by our colleague from Delaware on the need for passage of H.R. 17112. The need is so obvious that I am amazed a catalog of Federal domestic assistance programs was not inaugurated long ago. But the truth is that the basic needs of the Congress and the people sometimes go unattended while we preoccupy ourselves with finding solutions to far more complicated problems.

Recently, I was glancing through a number of committee reports and was surprised to find how much of the legislation we pass is designed to overcome waste and duplication. It is a recurring ailment of the Federal Government that we are forever solving piecemeal. I can only wonder at what examples of waste will be uncovered once the Program Information Act is in effect.

As a cosponsor of the original Roth bill, I wouldn't want to let the opportunity pass without asking this subcommittee to give its approval to H.R. 17112. We can't eliminate duplication and overlapping of programs until some such act as this is passed to identify those programs.

PREPARED STATEMENT OF HON. EDWARD J. PATTEN, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF NEW JERSEY

I would like to join my colleagues in urging swift passage of this extremely important legislation. As the amount of Federal assistance programs grows larger, we find that the State and local officials are becoming more confused about where to turn to obtain the proper type and amount of Federal assistance. The 1970 Catalog of Federal Domestic Assistance, released by OEO, is a substantial step in the right direction, but still falls short in many important areas. For example, the OEO catalog still lacks detailed information describing the specific Federal program adequately.

Aside from making the various corrections in the present catalog, the most important aspect of this bill is that it assures continued excellance and standardization. We owe the recipients of these Federal programs the guarantee that the collection and dissemination of information will be of only the highest quality. Without Federal authority to oversee these operations, we run the risk of slipping from the high standards necessary to make this catalog functional. The Federal supervisory power would also eliminate wasteful duplication. For example, we have catalogued some 33 elementary and secondary education programs administered be seven agencies in the past catalog.

The all-encompassing aspect of H.R. 17112 shows the intensive research and the thoroughness of the work done by Mr. Roth and his staff, and they all should be complimented on their work. It is my hope that the subcommittee will act quickly and favorably on this bill, for it is one that is greatly needed and will benefit many communities in the Nation who are in urgent need of Federal grants and loans.

PREPARED STATEMENT OF HON. JERRY L. PETTIS, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA

Mr. Chairman, I wish to express my support for H.R. 17112, the Program Information Act, and respectfully request this subcommittee to act favorably upon it.

This legislation is very similar to H.R. 339, a measure which I cosponsored. It refines the earlier bill and incorporates some suggestions by the Bureau of the Budget and other interested parties which substantially improve the legislation. When we first came to Congress, members of our class ascertained the necessity for a compendium of all Federal domestic programs which could be referred to by our offices and our constituents. The outgrowth of this was the Roth study which has received remarkably wide use as an unofficial reference to the proliferation of Government programs.

Not only have myself and my staff found this document extremely useful, but so have numerous of my constituents including local entities, municipal governments and districts, schools, hospitals, to name but a few.

Under this measure the executive branch would have the responsibility to produce and keep up to date a Government-wide catalog of all Federal domestic assistance programs. The intent is to provide potential beneficiaries with informa

tion on each program in a clear and descriptive manner so that they may determine whether they are eligible for assistance, and be aided in applying for actual benefits.

There is an abundance of Government programs providing aid in almost every conceivable area. However, many times it is difficult to know precisely. what assistance may be available for a particular project. This catalog would provide a description of each program and criteria for the reception of benefits, so that each interested party may decide if the program fits his particular purposes.

With the maze of domestic programs already in existence, a comprehensive catalog of them compiled by the Government is demonstrably necessary. I thus respectfully urge this subcommittee to pass favorably upon H.R. 17112.

PREPARED STATEMENT OF HON. ROBERT O. TIERNAN, A_REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF RHODE ISLAND

Mr. Chairman, I come before you today as a cosponsor of H.R. 17112, the Program Information Act. Each and every year the Government of this great Nation, through its numerous agencies, allocates in excess of $20 billion for various domestic assistance programs. Unfortunately, however, many of the people for whom these programs were initially established to benefit are unaware of their existence. These people have to be made knowledgeable of the fact that such aid is available and they must be told how to acquire it. Hopefully through passage of this legislation we can accomplish both of these objectives.

Mr. Chairman, we in the Congress are the guardians of this Nation's purse strings, and as such are under an obligation to insure that the taxpayer's dollars are spent as economically as possible. Passage of H.R. 17112 will undoubtedly result in a great saving of funds that are now being expended fruitlessly. Every one here present has knowledge to some degree of Government waste with particular emphasis on the malady of duplication. Passage of H.R. 17112 will hopefully correct this ailment by making it known exactly where duplication does exist, thus making it possible to eliminate it. Every effort must be made to facilitate access to all available programs which in turn should and must operate as economically as possible. Passage of H.R. 17112 is a step toward insuring that it does and I enthusiastically support this legislation. I urge you to act expeditiously in sending this bill to the House floor.

PREPARED STATEMENT OF JERRY L. MARCHBANKS, VICE PRESIDENT, COMPUTER & BUSINESS MANAGEMENT, INC., DIRECTOR, FAIR (FEDERAL ASSISTANCE INFORMATION REPORTING)

Mr. Chairman and members of the subcommittee, we are privileged to have the opportunity to testify before this subcommittee in support of H.R. 17112, the Program Information Act.

The testimony heretofore presented to this subcommittee has come from the Members of the House and from representatives of the Executive Office of the President; that is, from the creators (legislators) and administrators of Federal assistance programs. Our testimony is presented from the perspective of the users of Federal assistance programs.

FAIR (Federal Assistance Information Reporting) recognizes Federal assistance programs as a major resource available to meet the needs of State and local government in their efforts to raise the quality of life for all Americans. The key to gathering the benefits of these Federal programs is the ability to match what assistance is needed with what assistance is available. This is what FAIR is all about. Although the specific FAIR system is unique, our information requirements on Federal assistance programs are representative of those encountered by State, regional, and local government officials and planners throughout this country. And the difficulties we have had in obtaining such information are also representative. Indeed, we are well versed in these difficulties.

We believe our experience directly pertains to the deliberations of this subcommittee. How the proposals embodied in H.R. 17112 can be of significant help in overcoming present difficulties of users of Federal programs, based upon our experience, is what we wish to testify to today.

THE FAIR SYSTEM

The operation and information needs of the FAIR (Federal assistance information reporting) system in their simplest form as they relate for the considera

tions presented by H.R. 17112 are as follows. FAIR is a computer analysis information network available to public officials in all levels of government. The program was initially developed in the State of West Virginia and tailored to the needs of State, regional, and local government there for coordinated information on Federal assistance programs. Utilizing modern computer capabilities for receiving, storing, assessing, and disseminating vast quantities of information, the present FAIR system provides a national service built around two basic elements:

1. A constantly updated computer file on Federal assistance programs which is the most complete and accurate in existence; coupled with the ability to integrate the basic Federal assistance program file data with on-going program data and current financial abilities of State and local government.

2. A word-by-word search ability of the entire, integrated computer file to locate data and analyze questions on any Federal assistance program and its relation to local projects; the programed ability to handle these questions and answers in simple English and transmit them via telephone lines to an unlimited number of remote access terminals in State and local government centers.

Thus FAIR provides a key information and analysis link between the assistance offered by Federal programs and the needs of the local planners and beneficiaries. Obviously, from this description, it follows that the quality of our analyzed "output" information which we provide State and local government cannot exceed the quality of our "input" information we obtain from the Federal Government. Thus although FAIR is not a direct "user" of Federal assistance programs in that it is not itself a "beneficiary," nevertheless our information needs are precisely the same as those of the public officials and planners of the local governments our system serves. Not only are our information needs the same, but so also have been our difficulties in obtaining this information. And these difficulties have been very real.

THE FEDERAL INFORMATION GAP

Congressman Roth, in his excellent testimony before this subcommittee, spoke of an "information crisis." This expression is well chosen and accurately describes the urgency of the problem to which we have been referring for several years as the "Federal information gap." From our direct experience in trying to close this gap, we can readily testify that it is very real and may very well be termed a "crisis.' Certainly it is the initial, and one of the chief hurdles to successful utilization of Federal assistance programs by those who are intended to receive program benefits at the local level.

Currently there are over 1,300 sources of Federal assistance to State and local government totaling nearly $21 billion in fiscal 1969, more than 10 times the amount available 20 years ago. With the increase in available Federal funds has come increased duplication, program inconsistencies, and an information gap of gigantic size. The result has been that the use of these assistance programs is severely limited because of difficulty in knowing how best to match what is needed with what is available.

For example, often it has not even been possible to accurately determine how many programs are available. The 1969 OEO catalog listed 581 Federal domestic assistance programs; the 1970 effort, only a year later, identified 1,019 such programs. The 1969 listing of Federal assistance programs compiled by the staff of Congressman Roth located 1,315 programs. The Commerce Clearing House identifies approximately 800 programs in its Urban Affairs Reporter. Although many of these "programs" can be cross-related between sources, FAIR, in correlating all of these efforts, has identified almost 1,400 individual programs using the same basic definition for a "program" as used by OEO and Congressman Roth.

Even after determining the available programs, it is often difficult, or impossible, to determine the uses of these programs. Such elements as identification of recipients and beneficiaries are commonly less than clear. For instance, there are 43 identifiable programs which deal directly with the problems of Indians. However, the severe limitations upon the use of many of these programs is not apparent in the catalog listings. Furthermore, many other programs-EDA, health, housing, agriculture, etc. may also accept Indians as beneficiaries, although this is not specifically stated. Thus we have the paradox that at once there are both fewer and more programs to aid needy Indians than is apparent under present program descriptions.

The present and the projected financial status of many programs is not readily available. The result upon State and local planning can be disastrous. A local planning body may ignore many relevant and necessary programs because it appears that there are no funds available through that particular program; 4