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Against this total need of $1,019 million there currently exists in unreserved funds from fiscal 1960 an estimated $200 million, plus the $300 million which will become available on July 1, 1960. The net deficit amounts to approximately $517 million-this is the amount needed to accommodate only the communities which were able to file responses to our questionnaire. This amount does not provide for those communities which were unable to file need estimates nor does it provide for the needs of the new communities which will be initiating new programs during this period.

FUTURE NEEDS

Of the communities responding, 181 were able to provide estimates as to their anticipated grant needs for the 3-year period, 1962 through 1964. The total amounted to $969.8 million, or an annual average need of $323.3 million.

For the 5-year period, 1965 through 1969, 170 communities estimated their grant needs at $1,765.9 million, or an estimated average annual grant need of, for these local governments alone, $353.2 million.

Considering the relatively small number of communities able to make estimates as to future needs at this time and in anticipation of further increases in number of communities participating in the program, a $600 million annual authorization of Federal grants seems fully justified.

National urban renewal survey—January 1960, estimated 10-year urban renewal program-Federal capital grant requirements

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1 No figures provided where only 1 community has responded and has requested its reply be kept co r fidential. Totals, however, include all data collected.

* Exclusive of applications pending for new projects or expansions of existing projects.

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1 Community with an active renewal program.

Mayor DILWORTH. Thank you, sir.

Because I know you have a long day and session, I will summarize the fairly long prepared statement, if I may. The things that I think are vitally important to the cities of every size as regards urban renewal and, certainly, urban renewal is the greatest single program ever devised for cities, because I think the thing that cannot be stressed too often is that for every dollar of tax money, at least in our city and I think that has been the pretty general experience, it primes the pump for about $10 of private investment, and it tremendously encourages the cities to get civic help, the business help of the whole community, to rally the whole community behind such a program. It puts the city government tremendously on its metal because other cities have been able to do it. Therefore, each city is trying to surpass the record of the other.

I think we have gotten up to where we believe that all our larger projects we get $10 of private investments for every dollar of tax money. In our two largest projects now coming up, the one in the Independence Square area, where there will be close to $100 million of private investments, and the Eastwick Street development where there will be in excess of $200 million of private investment. We actually hope to go above the $10 figure, and it means that your whole community gets rallied behind it, and it also leads to all kinds of collateral things that are not actually in the redevelopment area.

So I think there is no question about it. There has never been any program like it. It is just really, as we see it, an essential program. Never has a Federal tax dollar, we think, been spent better than on these programs.

Senator CLARK. Would you comment briefly on your thinking as to the ultimate tax effect of urban renewal, both on local taxes and Federal taxes? Is it not your view that in the long run and, in fact, in the reasonably short run, the investment of this Federal money in urban renewal projects generates sufficient additional Federal revenue to pay for its costs? So that while it is a grant in form, actually, the Federal Government gets its money back. If there is a long development period, by the increased value of local assessments, the municipality gets a substantial increment to its taxes.

Mayor DILWORTH. In making up our tax estimates in the city for the next 4 years, and by the end of the next 4 years, we will be nowhere near finished either of the two largest projects that we have. We are figuring a very substantial revenue increase based on these, and we have projected it to a second 4-year period where we figure the revenue will go up enormously. We have had this checked by our economy league, by our bureau of municipal research, and others. So we are counting on it, both this and our industry development program under which, for the first time in 30 years, we have been able to bring more industrial jobs into the city than we have lost.

These two together are going to give us the kind of tax base where we can be self-sustaining at a reasonable tax rate and where we will not, each 4 years, have to increase our taxes.

Senator CLARK. Would you comment just briefly on what you anticipate will be the economic results of the Eastwick project in terms of taxes?

For Senator Bush's benefit, that is an area of the city which has been not very heavily settled; pretty well run down.

At the moment, does it yield any substantial tax revenue? Then, would you develop very briefly what you have in mind there and what you hope will be the resulting tax increment in general terms?

Mayor DILWORTH. Of course, you originated this program. You have 2,500 acres in the southwest part of the city opposite our airport there that really has just laid fallow for years and years and years. There are about 20,000 people on it. Sixty percent of the homes were tax delinquent. It is actually below the water level of the two rivers. It has been a drain on the whole city.

Senator BUSH. Would you call it a slum area or not?

Mayor DILWORTH. It is not even that, sir, because it is not that thickly populated.

Senator CLARK. Largely vacant land with some slum dwellings on it, but quite a few decent houses, too.

Mayor DILWORTH. That is right. That will be about a 1,000-acre industry park, the part that joins the river. Another 1,000 acres, because about 300 will be roads, will be developed to be a city within a city of about 60,000 population of the same economic level and quality of homes that you would find in a Levittown area.

We expect to put in the industry area about 20,000 jobs and bring in light industries like your Western Telephone Co. and high wage rate industries. We have both the real estate tax and the wage tax so that it will bring in very substantial revenues to the city.

Senator BUSH. Does that come under the slum clearance and urban renewal legislation?

Senator CLARK. I think there has already been a pretty substantial grant for Eastwick, has there not?

Mayor DILWORTH. Yes, and the final grant would be $34 million, but the actual private investment in there will run well in excess of $200 million.

Senator CLARK. I have heard it said-I do not know whether or not it is true this is the largest single urban redevelopment project in the United States.

Mayor DILWORTH. Yes, it is. The job is to get these programs organized and to get the community behind them. We have been able to do this, thanks to the tremendous cooperation from what is called the Old Philadelphia Development Corp., which is a nonprofit corporation formed by all the center city business interests, plus what we call the Greater Philadelphia movement, which is similar, for example, to what is somewhat better known as your Allegheny Conference out in Pittsburgh

Senator CLARK. Quite like Senator Bush's New Haven group, too. Mayor DILWORTH. Yes, very much like the New Haven group.

We have been able to work up a program for the center city that will involve, within the next 10 years, minimum expenditures of about half a billion dollars, because in a 20-square-block area, we have really all our principal office buildings, stores, shops, theaters, apartment houses, two of our largest universities, half a dozen of our largest hospitals. It is an amazingly concentrated area.

But, the two principal things they want are to have a reasonable assurance of continuity of this program and also a reasonable assurance that we are going to be able to solve our transportation problems. That is one reason we are pressing very hard to have the Congress include transportation in the urban renewal, first, because we feel, without the solution of transportation, a lot of your urban renewal money could actually go down the drain.

You take a store like our John Wanamaker, which is our finest store. They are prepared to spend about $10 million to rehabilitate the building, but they want to be able to know whether they are going to get enough people to shop in there to make it worthwhile. Naturally, they are not going to do that without the transportation.

Senator BUSH. Where does the transportation problem fit into this? Senator CLARK. Senator Williams has a mass transportation bill, which has been referred to this committee, on which we are going to have some testimony a little later. The point is that the center cities

are being strangled because of the traffic problem brought on by automobiles, inadequate highways, and the enormously high cost of highways. If we could get some of this commuting traffic back on mass transit and mass transportation, this would rehabilitate the center of the city.

I should not be testifying, you should, Mayor Dilworth.

Senator BUSH. You were just answering my question as to where it fits into this hearing.

Senator CLARK. It is S. 2378, which is in your folder.

Mayor DILWORTH. That will be next week, Senator. There is to be a hearing before this subcommittee.

Senator CLARK. Three days of testimony.

Mayor DILWORTH. Yes, next week.

The survey that was made jointly by the American Municipal Association and the U.S. Conference of Mayors, I think, makes it very clear, and I think it is a good survey, that the actual needs of the cities of over 35,000 will run well in excess of $700 million for just straight urban renewal projects. So that I think, actually $600 million a year for 10 years is a reasonably conservative figure.

Senator CLARK. Let us interrupt you to ask you to comment on the testimony of our mutual friend, Mr. David Walker, who appeared before the committee a few days ago and said, and I quote:

As you know, we are not proposing new urban renewal legislation at this time because we feel that the legislative framework in which we operate is basically sound and that this should be a time for concentrating on accomplishments.

Then, later, quoting again :

It appears even more certain now than it did in February that we will use all but a small part of the capital grant authority provided for urban renewal for fiscal 1960 and that the additional authority which becomes available on July 1, will be adequate for our needs in the coming fiscal year.

I threw at Mr. Walker the survey of the mayors, and he remained unconvinced. I wonder if you have any comments on Mr. Walker's views. I am sure you feel your survey is a sound one. Here, we have the administration saying they did not need another nickel and the mayors saying they need $600 million a year for 10 years. Somebody must be wrong.

Mayor DILWORTH. I think he is bound by administration policy. He was out in Chicago, and we talked to him at some length out

there.

Senator CLARK. You do not have any doubt the need exists and the applications will be forthcoming, do you?

Mayor DILWORTH. They have over $700 million in applications now. Senator BUSH. I would like to observe, in behalf of Mr. Walker, while he naturally would be bound by administration policy, generally speaking, and appropriately so, I believe, if he wants to serve in the administration, I have talked with him privately about this matter, and I am certain that it is his conviction that expenditures of the order of $300 to $350 million a year is an adequate amount. I am not going to continue the argument here about which is the right amount. I only want to make clear that I am sure Mr. Walker sincerely believes that and that he is not taking that position purely on account of being an administration officer.

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