bers of the subcommittee made that criticism in connection with our hearings on the Conservation Corps Act, that this is just a palliative, a sugar-coated pill, that nobody really knows whether this experience results in any kind of either rehabilitation or attaining a rather useful skill for employment purposes and we are largely dealing in faith in our belief that this kind of useful work experience must be helpful to the individual. We don't know whether it is or not. I am not lecturing you but it would be very, very useful if we could have some followup in some area where we could find out what happens to these young people. Senator, do you have any comment as to a followup in Wisconsin? Senator NELSON. Our program, the one on youth conservation camps, was inaugurated three summers ago. Again this is a program for boys 16 to 19 and we don't have any plans to follow up. So we don't have any experience. Mr. WISE. I might add that we are very conscious of this gap in our program. We have made appeals to various sources for funds to conduct this research, so far without success. Senator CLARK. Do you happen to know, Mr. Wise, whether any research has gone in following up on the CCC individuals as to what has happened to them? Mr. WISE. I have no knowledge of any incisive research. I think something was done in connection with selective service but I have no knowledge of any detailed research having been accomplished. Senator CLARK. We had a very helpful witness earlier this year who had been a CCC enrollee during the depression, now a successful businessman some 30 years later. He came in to tell us what an extraordinarily fine experience he thought his service in the corps had been. That is just one example. Does that complete your statement, Mr. Wise? Mr. WISE. In effect, yes, sir, other than to say that Mayor Tate is very enthusiastically in support of this bill. Senator CLARK. Thank you very much. We appreciate your being with us. That concludes the testimony this morning. This will probably be the last meeting of the subcommittee this year. I have a rather detailed statement which I would like to have printed in the record but I will not take the time of the stenographer or Senator Nelson to read it other than to say that I intend shortly to introduce in the Senate and with an expository speech a bill which will rather substantially amend the Employment Act of 1946 and which is the result of a year and 3 months of study of the subcommittee. I hope by introducing this bill we will get some meaningful discussion going both inside and outside the Congress so that in due course next year we will be able to attack the problem very seriously with pertinent legislation in mind. I would hope at that time we will have some indication as to whether or not the administration will support the proposed legislation. The subcommittee will stand adjourned. (Whereupon, at 11 a.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.) 37-181-646 Summary of survey of State, county, and city conservation and recreation officials during May, June, and July of 1964 in response to letters from Senator Gaylord Nelson of Wisconsin asking for information relating to the proposed Human and Resource Conservation Act of 1964 (S. 2458). SUMMARY As of July 31, 1964, 467 replies have been received in response to approximately 2,000 inquiries sent during the previous 3 months. Over 97 percent of those replying supported the legislation to give jobs to unemployed workers on conservation and recreation projects. Many of the replies contained outlines of constructive projects. Estimates of work which could be started immediately amounted to over 425,000 man-years. ALABAMA RESPONSES STATE OF ALABAMA, DEPARTMENT OF CONSERVATION, Montgomery, Ala., June 11, 1964. Hon. GAYLORD NELSON, DEAR SENATOR NELSON: This is in reply to your letter of May 29, 1964, addressed to me and similar letters addressed to Mr. Laurence H. Marks, chief, division of State parks, and Mr. J. M. Stauffer, chief, division of forestry, concerning the provision of funds to utilize unemployed workers on conservation projects. We have reviewed your request for information very carefully. We appreciate your efforts to reach a solution to unemployment with the instigation of projects such as park development, roadside improvement, timber stand improvement, etc. There is much to be done in this regard in Alabama as well as in other States. For a long-range program that would give continuing and increasing relief to the unemployment problem, we feel that encouragement of private industry and the reward of individual effort rather than federally controlled make-work programs would be the proper approach. With regard to immediate relief for the unfortunate individual, willing and anxious to work, who is unable to find gainful employment because of lack of training and skill, the development of conservation projects appears sound and logical. This type of work would permit a training program for unskilled people and during the process add to the natural resource wealth of the State and Nation. In that respect it would be an investment rather than an expenditure without hope of repayment in any form. Such a program should be established for a definite period of months and should not be of an interminable character. With regard to the situation in Alabama, we could use a considerable number of workers in the construction of low service fire control roads, the replacement of deteriorated wood lookout towers, the construction of new towers to complete the detection system, the construction of district headquarters buildings and ranger station headquarters, timber stand improvement and tree planting on State-owned lands, and various types of recreational installations. Sincerely yours, CLAUDE D. KELLEY, Director of Conservation. STATE OF ALABAMA, DEPARTMENT OF CONSERVATION, Hon. GAYLORD NELSON, Washington, D.C. DEAR SENATOR NELSON: I appreciate very much your letter of May 29, 1964, soliciting my comments and suggestions with regard to legislation that you are drafting to provide funds for conservation projects. Our director of conservation, Mr. Claude D. Kelley, wrote you under date of June 11, 1964, and incorporated in his letter the suggestions of Mr. L. H. Marks, chief, division of State parks, and myself. In view of your interest and desire to help unemployed folks and increase the natural wealth of our country for the benefit of all of our people, I commend to your attention section 2, Clarke-McNary law, act of June 7, 1924 (43 Stat. 653). This is the statute under which the Secretary of Agriculture, operating through the U.S. Forest Service, cooperates financially with and otherwise assists the States in their respective forest fire control programs. Although the authorization in the law permits Congress to appropriate a maximum of $20 million for forest fire cooperation, the approriation for the past several years has barely passed the halfway mark. For fiscal year 1964, the appropriation was $12,514,500. For fiscal year 1965, the appropriation may be slightly increased although this is not at all a certainty. The additional money that would be allotted to the States, if the appropriation were increased to the full authorization of $20 million, would provide employment to low-income rural people who are needed to help prevent and suppress forest fires; and maintain equipment and improvements to an acceptable maintenance standard. The effect of the additional money would be far reaching. It would find its way into many local channels of trade. I realize that the suggested increase in the CM-2 appropriation would not have the public appeal or the anticipated expectancy usually associated with a new conservation measure. However, it would represent a realistic and practical approach toward helping people and strengthening our natural resources. The State of Wisconsin would receive additional funds as would all of the other cooperating States. Sincerely yours, Approved: J. M. STAUFFER, State Forester. CLAUDE D. KELLEY, Director of Conservation. UNIVERSITY OF ALABAMA MUSEUMS, Hon. GAYLORD NELSON, DEAR SENATOR NELSON: Thank you for your letter of May 29 inviting me to contribute information to assist you in drafting legislation looking toward the utilization of unemployed workers on certain types of conservation and public works projects. During the depression years I directly or indirectly supervised the planning and execution of archaeological projects for the State of Alabama and the Tennessee Valley Authority which involved a very large labor force: white-collar workers who were quickly taught new skills; scientists, technicians, and supervisors in important archaeological exploration, data preservation, and site conservation work that could never have been accomplished if a large pool of manpower had not been available and used. There can be no doubt as to the value of this program. Its immediate objective was to furnish interesting, challenging, and dignified employment to help maintain the self-respect of thousands of unemployed workers while accomplishing a worthwhile end. This objective was achieved in full measure. The collateral benefit, and the aspect of the program in which I had the major interest, was a lasting contribution to a knowledge of America's prehistorical period and a preservation for future generations of archaeological sites, artifacts, and data. During the period 1933-39, the programs under my sponsorship or direction employed upward of 2,000 workers. This work was particularly adaptable to our employment assistance program because it not only accomplished its major primary and collateral secondary purposes in an ideal manner, but also: 1. Required a minimum expenditure for materials and equipment. 4. Was completely flexible in being adjustable to the work force availability, both as to time and geography. (We actually opened new laboratories in centers of major unemployment.) 5. Required no Federal real estate or land acquisition. 6. Involved no conflict with trades or crafts unions. 7. Was not in competition in any degree with private enterprise. 8. Provided an end product that was of undisputed public benefit. This same series of programs which was operated during the depression years with so much success could be duplicated an expanded now with the same benefits. Your specific questions are answered as follows: 1. If funds were available, could you utilize substantial numbers of workers in your own program? Yes. We could use laborers, laboratory technicians, writers, illustrators, restorers, catalogers, and some clerical workers as well as professional employees available in the fields of anthropology, archaeology, and allied disciplines. 2. What specific kinds of projects could be done without extensive new preparation? (a) The completion of the restoration of Mound State Monument including erosion control, tree planting, and exploration. |