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Captain RICHMOND. Maybe this would not be in point. Let me make this suggestion. It is possible in the case of an automobile accident in some States that they can fine you and still take away your license. Further you may have to answer a civil judgment.

case,

Captain HARRISON. The provision whereby a master may log a man cover only specific instances. It may be adequate in this particular but there are other situations where the limitations on the master may not be adequate in so far as the man continuing on his papers is concerned, so I think while an argument could be made there is double punishment, really we should get down to cases and see whether an injustice has been done, and I feel in the cases the Coast Guard is handling any fair-minded person will decide the punishment was not excessive. In fact, we lean over backwards to be fair in every case.

Mr. GRAHAM. Captain, as I understood Mr. Volpian, and I do not want to break up your point, his argument went to the severity of the punishment. Am I right Mr. Volpian?

Mr. VOLPIAN. Yes, sir.

Captain HARRISON. He spoke of a case where a man took half a day and the master logged him. If the ship was not inconvenienced by his absence, that is one thing, but suppose that ship had to sail, or suppose the man's position or job was such that his presence was important and delayed the ship in sailing. When you have a big ship tied up at the dock it costs money when they are delayed.

Mr. KEATING. Is it a fact none of the men on a ship are what might be called absolutely essential or irreplacable? That statement was made.

Captain HARRISON. Well, I do not know whether I could answer that question definitely or not, but certainly the certificate of inspection lists the complement of officers and seamen necessary for the operation of that ship.

Now, it is within the discretion of the master to grant leave and to set up permissible latitude in absences, but for a man to walk off a ship saying nothing about it to the master or officers, I can see where it may greatly inconvenience them and delay the ship, or might not do anything..

Mr. KEATING. Do they usually go AWOL singly or in groups?
Captain RICHMOND. There is no rule on that.

Mr. SPINGARN. This is a break-down of hearings held during the quarter ended March 31, and I am dealing only with unlicensed personnel, or seamen. It shows of the cases in which hearings were held, the following action was taken: Eighty-four certificates were revoked, 437 were suspended without probation, and 702 were suspended with probation.

What I am getting at is in a very great number of cases, although disciplinary action was taken, it was coupled with probation, so the man lost nothing.

Mr. GRAHAM. Gentlemen, the hour has arrived for the House to convene, so we will adjourn at this point, subject to the call of the chair. (Whereupon, at 12 noon, the subcommittee adjourned, subject to the call of the chair.)

CONDUCT OF DISCIPLINARY HEARINGS BY COAST

GUARD COMMISSIONED OFFICERS

MONDAY, MAY 5, 1947

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,
SUBCOMMITTEE No. 3 OF THE
COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY,
Washington, D. C.

The subcommittee met at 9:30 a. m., pursuant to adjournment, in committee room No. 346, Old House Office Building, Hon. Louis E. Graham (chairman of the subcommittee) presiding.

Mr. GRAHAM. Mr. Spingarn, I believe you wanted to finish and the others accompanying you wanted to testify.

Mr. SPINGARN. Yes, sir.

Mr. GRAHAM. One of our members of the Pennsylvania delegation died last night. They want to call us together a little later to make arrangements.

The second thing is, we have another matter on the judgeship in Florida. I do not want to hurry you in any way.

Mr. SPINGARN. Right.

Mr. GRAHAM. All right, sir.

FURTHER STATEMENT OF STEPHEN J. SPINGARN, ASSISTANT GENERAL COUNSEL, TREASURY DEPARTMENT, ACCOMPANIED BY CAPT. ALFRED C. RICHMOND, CHIEF, PLANNING AND CONTROL STAFF, COAST GUARD, AND CAPT. KENNETH S. HARRISON, CHIEF COUNSEL, COAST GUARD

Mr. SPINGARN. Well, Captain Richmond was in the middle of his testimony when we broke off the other day. So I think the most orderly thing would be for Captain Richmond to conclude.

Mr. GRAHAM. All right, Captain. Captain, may I suggest in view of the little different arrangement, you keep your voice up. Captain RICHMOND. Yes, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. GRAHAM. Proceed.

Captain RICHMOND. Mr. Chairman, one point I would like to clear up is in connection with the question by Mr. Keating in regard to figures with respect to investigations, hearings, dismissals, and suspensions. I gave those figures. At the time the figures I gave indicated so many suspensions and revocations of certificates and one point I did not make clear was this: Many of these people that are subject to hearing hold more than one certificate, and if they are up for hearing on misconduct and found guilty both certificates are acted on.

Mr. GRAHAM. Would it interrupt you if I asked at this point to

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clear up another thing. Would there be a separate penalty on both certificates?

Captain RICHMOND. No, sir.

Mr. GRAHAM. Thank you.

Captain RICHMOND. The theory is that for misconduct both certificates are subject to the jurisdiction. Also, officers in many instances hold a license and also hold a certificate, and if the charge is misconduct, the certificate is taken away at the same time, and therefore, these figures 1 am going to put in the record, may appear inconsistent. Mr. Keating asked for the total dismissals, suspensions, and revocations. The total dismissals, suspensions, and revocations exceed the total number of hearings and there is an apparent discrepancy.

Mr. GRAHAM. Will you submit that now to the reporter so he can place it in the record at this point.

Captain RICHMOND. Yes, sir.

Mr. GRAHAM. This will be placed in the record at this point. (The statement referred to is as follows:)

OFFICERS

4,303 investigations; 735 hearings; 109 dismissals; 635 suspensions and revocations.

Many engineers have two licenses, steam and Diesel. Most officers also possess certificates, and if found guilty of misconduct all documents are suspended or revoked.

CERTIFICATED SEAMEN

13,597 investigations; 3,027 hearings; 288 dismissals; 2,910 suspensions and revocations.

Approximately 33 percent of all seamen hold more than one certificate and most licensed officers also hold certificates. If the individual is found guilty of misconduct, all documents are suspended or revoked. Approximately 87 percent of all cases involve charges of misconduct.

Go ahead, Captain.

Captain RICHMOND. Last week. I was explaining our procedures as they apply to these hearings. The case is heard by an examining officer. Both the Government, through the investigating officer, acting as prosecutor, presents its case, and the person charged presents his case. At the conclusion thereof the examining officer can render his decisions, which may be "not guilty" and the whole thing is dropped, or the certificate revoked or suspended. Upon that suspension or revocation it is within the province of the hearing officer to place the person charged on probation.

Mr. GRAHAM. Is it possible for the defendant to waive hearing?
Captain RICHMOND. No, sir; we go ahead with the hearing.
Mr. GRAHAM. You go ahead with the hearing?

Captain RICHMOND. He can plead guilty.

Mr. GRAHAM. There is no such thing as a waiver?

Captain RICHMOND. No, sir.

Mr. GRAHAM. Go ahead.

Captain RICHMOND. At that time that the decision is rendered it is explained to the person charged that he has a right to appeal and that he must appeal within 30 days to take advantage of that and, if necessary, we even offer to help him brief his appeal if he has not the facilities for it. That appeal is taken to the district commander, and if the district commander does not reverse the hearing officer

the individual has a further appeal to the Commandant of the Coast Guard.

That, in general, is the procedure now practiced by the Coast Guard.

Captain HARRISON. Could I interrupt one moment to say the procedure has been changed to provide that appeals now will only lie with the Commandant. Up to December 11, as he explained, it was correct, but has since been changed.

Captain RICHMOND. Thank you. There are just a few points further I want to make. One is the success or failure of this program depends upon the immediate investigation of these complaints. Second, the constant availability of the hearing officer, because a merchant vessel, as explained by Mr. Spingarn, is usually paid off within 24 hours after its arrival in port, and the crews disperse. They register in union halls and take some time off and then usually sign on some other vessel.

In order to have necessary testimony it is necessary to hold the hearings relatively soon after we receive the complaint and investigate to find out if there is a prima facie case.

As to the present time I would refer to our first district. In the First Coast Guard District, which is the New England District, we have at the present time appointed two examiners, two officers as examiners. They cover the ports of Boston, Rockland, Portland, and Providence. It is necessary to have two in order that we can provide this "on the spot" hearing and, even with two officers, we have difficulty because if three cases pile up at the same time, it is not possible to hold the hearings as soon as we like to.

Mr. GRAHAM. Are they both investigators and judges?

Captain RICHMOND. No, sir; they are examiners now. They only hear the cases and, as I mentioned, since December 11, such other Coast Guard work as they do is confined to vessel inspection or other work that I listed in the early part of my statement. Nothing to do with investigative work.

Mr. KEATING. Those two men are full time on that duty?

Captain RICHMOND. No, sir; they would not necessarily be engaged covering those four ports full time, only in covering that type of work. They are available for special service, dry dock examination, inspection of new construction and general work having nothing to do with discipline.

Mr. KEATING. Other Coast Guard officers conduct the investigation? Captain RICHMOND. Yes, sir.

Mr. KEATING. That is all done by officers?

Captain RICHMOND. Yes. We feel that the present system is sound. We feel that this suggested legislation is a most economical and efficient way of doing it because, as I say, we have demonstrated the need of having these on-the-spot hearings and if we have officers that can do other types of work and call them in as needed, you have them available, as long as you do not have them connected with investigations. Mr. KEATING. The previous investigations were conducted through the Department of Commerce?

Captain RICHMOND. Through the Bureau of Marine Inspection and Navigation.

Mr. KEATING. Did they have people on the spot to conduct the hearings?

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