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must go out of business until you change the law. Once establish that domination and it will be hard to overcome. It is difficult to climb the hill in that condition of affairs. So that whether the author or the copyright owner has this right to accept a royalty, it shouid be by requirement of the statute so made that anyone who desires to enter into the business can do it, and so that the author shall not have the right to select his maker and confine the right to that maker.

Senator CLAPP. Mr. Burton, we will now have to ask you to postpone your further remarks, because Mr. Glockling is here and wants to speak before we adjourn for lunch, so that he may take the train.



Mr. GLOCKLING. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of the committee, it will take but a very few minutes to deliver my message.

I desire to have reference to section 13 of the bill before the committee, known as the manufacturing clause. The purpose of it is to afford certain protection to such crafts as enter into the product of a book. So far as the bill now before you is concerned, I fully concur in all its provisions affording protection to the crafts mentioned therein. The difficulty is that it does not go quite far enough; does not afford protection to the other crafts that enter into the product.

The argument that was made before you the other day by Mr. Sutherland is fully approved by me, and has equal force as applying to the crafts that I represent.

In this connection I desire to say that myself, in conjunction with other members of the book craft, will, with your permission, draft such changes in the section as will adequately cover protection to all concerned, and which, I am sure, will fully meet with the approval of the comioittee in so far as the principle is established, and I will present that or send it to you within a few days.

Senator CLAPP. You can do that within a week?
Mr. GLOCKLING. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. What is the nature of the amendment you propose?

Mr. GLOCKLING. To afford protection to craftsmen.
The CHAIRMAN. Does that cover bookbinding?
Mr. GLOCKLING. Bookbinding.

Mr. SULLIVAN. At the suggestion of the committee, Mr. Glockling has appeared here in connection with the proposed amendment of section 13. He speaks for the Association of International Bookbinders. I understand his suggestion looks to the fact of a conference of representatives of the different organizations and some agreement by them upon an amendment which will be presented within a week.

Mr. CURRIER. To cover the entire manufacture of books?

A GENTLEMAN. We desire to protect the American printer, plate maker, and pressman.

Mr. CURRIER. How about presswork?

Mr. SULLIVAN. That will be included in the amendments. It is the belief of those employed in the mechanical construction of books that the entire manufacturing work should be done in the United States. We understand some publishers object to that for the reason,

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as they state, that there is a certain kind of paper that can not be produced in the United States, but which must be secured in Japan or elsewhere. So we have concluded to leave out that feature, but we do desire that the complete manufacture of books, so far as concerns typesetting, plate work, and binding, shall be completed within the boundaries of the United States. So far as concerns the manufacture of paper, that is a matter we respectfully submit to the Senators and Representatives.

Mr. CURRIER. You take no interest in the raw material ?

Mr. SULLIVAN. We do not propose to go further than to include the bookbinders and pressmen; that they shall be as fully protected in the copyright law as anybody.

Mr. CROMELIN. May I ask whether the committee will sit tomorrow?

The CHAIRMAN. We had hoped that at the close of the session this afternoon all interests would feel that they had been fairly heard. Is it not possible to conclude the hearing this afternoon?

Mr. WALKER. The opponents have not been heard at all. There are several here who will be able to contribute a great deal of new information to the committee, information which was not given in June. I think if the committee should limit the opponents to the musical programme to one session of half a day much information can be had from them, so that I think, in the interest of facilitating the work of the committee, as well as in justice to those present and desiring to be heard, we can present our case in full this afternoon.

The CHAIRMAN. It is the purpose of the committee to be in session three hours this afternoon, and during that time we hope to close the hearing It is not the purpose of the committee to curtail debate unreasonably upon these questions, but I do hope that the gentlemen who are interested and who desire to speak will appreciate the fact that members of the committee have other duties to perform than to sit here and listen to argument of unreasonable length.

Mr. WALKER. I have been invited by gentlemen associated with me to make the opening_observations this afternoon. I shall not repeat what I said in June unless your honor should request further information at that time. In fact, I shall be as brief as possible, dwelling only on important points. I shall be followed by other gentlemen who will be able to state to the committee matters of fact with which they are more familiar than I am. In view of the number of gentlemen who are here to speak and in view of their ability and the knowledge they have, I will say that it will be impossible for us to render to the committee all the assistance we can render, unless we are permitted more than three hours. If we were endowed with the utmost conciseness of statement, as some are, we might do so, but it is impossible for us to do so otherwise. However, we will do the best we can.

The CHAIRMAN. We will not determine that question now, but later.

The LIBRARIAN. I desire to say that Mr. Philip Mauro, who was down on our list to appear to-day, is not able to be present. He is in court and can not be here until to-morrow. I simply ask that that be noted on the record at this point.

The committee took a recess from 1 to 2 o'clock p. m.


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The committee reassembled at the expiration of the recess, Senator Kittredge in the chair.

The CHAIRMAN. Before Mr. Burton proceeds with his argument the committee would like to know from the gentlemen interested how many hours are desired for the presentation of the case by the opponents to subdivision g?

Mr. BURTON. I can not speak for them, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. WALKER. Mr. Chairman, perhaps I can speak as accurately as anyone in that regard. There are four able gentlemen here ready to speak, and all of them are well worthy of your attention. One distinguished patent lawyer, who is very much interested in this matter and is able to make a good argument, can not be here to-day at all, but can be here to-morrow. I refer to Mr. Mauro. I think we ought to have at least five hours in opposition to clause g.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Cromelin, is the gentleman to whom Mr. Walker refers the one you have in mind ?

Mr. CROMELIN. Mr. Philip Mauro, counsel for the American Graphophone Company, is in court in New York to-day, but will probably be able to be here to-morrow, and would like an opportunity to appear before the committee in this matter.

The LIBRARIAN. Mr. Chairman, Arthur W. Adams, who had applied for leave to be heard, not merely on paragraph g, but on some other provisions of the bill, has written me a note saying that he is obliged to leave for New York, but would be glad to be heard tomorrow, if there is to be a session of the committee held to-morrow.

The CHAIRMAN. How much time does he desire ?
The LIBRARIAN. He said he would like to have half an hour.
The CHAIRMAN. How much time does Mr. Mauro desire ?

Mr. WALKER. Mr. Mauro is a concise and trained speaker and will not use any time unnecessarily. I should think about half an hour would be sufficient for him.

The LIBRARIAN. There are six speakers noted in opposition to clause g–Mr. Mauro, Mr. Walker, Mr. Dyer, Mr. Pound, Mr. Cromelin, and Mr. O'Connell.

The CHAIRMAN. The committee will be in session this afternoon until 5 o'clock. It will then take a recess until half past 7 o'clock this evening, and continue the night session until five hours have been devoted to the matter in order to hear these gentlemen. Do you de

Ꭰ sire, Mr. Burton, to be heard further by the committee ?

Mr. BURTON. If the committee think I have made a fair opening, it is all I desire, provided that, if I am able to remain, I may have an opportunity of replying to any criticism that may be made of the points I have advanced.

The CHAIRMAN. The committee will determine that when the criticisms are made.

Mr. BURTON. I only want to say that the usage, which I pointed out, does obtain to some extent, by reason of which the composers are not able to derive much revenue from royalty contracts, and that would be an objection to royalty contracts. Of course, it will be said that if the music publishers have advertised the publication, so have the cutters. That remark was to be looked for; but I say that, so far as my own clients are concerned, I am sure they are making their

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arrangements in such a way that the possibility of the suppression of reports and the possibility of misrepresentation will be as nearly prevented as possible. We have no objection to the making of the most stringent provisions in that regard, and we should make, ourselves, the most careful provisions to enable the composer to secure full returns and to have full opportunity to test the facts and check up in every way that is possible.

Mr. BÓWKER. May I ask, Mr. Burton, whether, if the composer, under the circumstances, has difficulty in collecting royalties from his own publisher, he would not have increased difficulty in collecting from Tom, Dick, and Harry?

Mr. BURTON. As I have said, it is entirely possible to make some practical provisions to meet that situation, and, if necessary, they can be made in the bill itself so as to preclude any possibility of fraud in that respect and to insure the composer the royalties to which he is entitled. If Congress undertakes to make such provisions, it can follow the details to any necessary extent, and we are prepared to submit suggestions in that regard in order that they may secure the rights aimed at in the bill as perfectly as human provisions can secure them.

Mr. JOHNSON. May I ask if that sort of a provision in a bill like this is not very much like regulating private business? How is the Government going to collect these royalties? It strikes me as being impracticable.

Mr. BURTON. The Government does not undertake to collect them, and it is no more interfering with private business than any other limitation put upon a right granted is an interference with private busiñess. The right is granted subject to certain requirements, and it is not unfair to business. As to the practical details of the method by which this should be accomplished, while I can see there may be differences of opinion, my own opinion is very clear that it would be but a very short time before royalties for this class of work would be so definitely fixed that it would not require the composer and the publisher many minutes to come to an agreement in a case where the cutter wanted to use the music. The first two or three instances where the royalty was to be fixed would practically determine the range within such limits as now obtain.

Mr. JOHNSON. Mr. Chairman, I regard it as of the essence of this matter that anyone proposing to criticise this bill should submit an actual technical substitute for it. How otherwise are we to know what is intended? How are we to know what we are contending with? So far as what is called the stamp copyright has been tried, with reference to literary work, it has utterly failed, and it is directly opposed to the principle of copyright. Where such a provision has been attempted, it has precluded the advertisement of the author's works, which can not be undertaken by a half a dozen people and can not be shared in by half a dozen publishers. One reason for giving the author exclusive control of his work is that he may give it to an agent, and that agent can present it to the public. That agent can afford to present it to the public because he reaps where he has sown, , and he will be willing to go to the expense of advertising these things to the public in such a way as no one but an agent could afford to advertise them.

Mr. BURTON. My response to that would be, if the committee desires a response at this point, that the actual experience with regard to perforated rolls up to this point has been that the roll advertises itself sufficiently. They do not have to do any advertising of that sort. If the music is known by name to the people who want it, they get it. The cutters are now getting what they want. This simply gives the publisher a royalty which he does not now get. So far as the publicity arising out of getting the music in this form is concerned, I believe the facts in that regard will be presented more fully than I can state them now; but I may state generally that the use of music in this form advertises it immensely, and that by reason of their use the sales of music in sheet form has increased 100 per cent in almost every instance.

Mr. BOWKER. Mr. Chairman, may I point out to you the fact that there is nothing in our American law providing for a license or for royalty? The patent law does provide for the license and royalty system, and it works perfectly well under the law, although not prescribed in the law. I can sell my patent by license or under a royalty. I submit that it is neither necessary nor desirable to include in the body of the written law a provision for royalties, any more than it is necessary and desirable in the patent law.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Cutter has stated to me that he desired thirty seconds of time in order to present a matter briefly to the committee.

Mr. CUTTER. Mr. Chairman, I desire only to present and read to you the following notice:


This copyright volume is offered for sale to the public only through the author or press agent of the publishers, who are permitted to sell it only at retail, and at 50 cents per copy, and with the express condition and reservation that it shall not, prior to August 1, 1907, be resold or offered or advertised for resale. The purchaser from them agrees to this condition and reservation by the acceptance of this copy. In case of any breach thereof the title of this book immediately reverts to the publishers. Any defacement, alteration, or removal of this notice will be prosecuted by the publishers to the full extent of the law.-(The Authors and Newspapers' Association.)

Mr. SOUSA. As I understand your view of the law, Mr. Burton, you want something in it which will compel the composer to give his work to the entire field of mechanical music-producing machines, and give them the right to reproduce them. Am I right about that?

Mr. BURTON. Substantially.
Mr. Sousa. You want them to be compelled by law to do that?

Mr. BURTON. Not to give him any control over the matter except to get his royalty

Mr. Sousa. Would you be willing that the mechanical instrument manufacturers, and all of them, should be compelled to buy all the compositions produced, and to have that put into the law?

Mr. BURTON. There is no buying involved in the matter.
Mr. Sousa. You want to compel me to sell ?

Mr. Sousa. You want the law to make me sell to you. If that is the case, I want the lawmakers to force you to buy. I have got some compositions I would like to sell.

Mr. BURTON. If the committee thinks that is a logical deduction I have no argument to make in regard to it. It seems to me not to require any response.

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