ought to be knowledgeable what there is for them to go to school, what aid they can get, what kind of assistance they can get, and they aren't that knowledgeable.

It isn't because they don't read; it isn't because they don't look at television. It's because somewhere along the line we leave it to the counselor or somebody at that school to tell them, and they aren't being told.

Mr. LEE. So the larger grants are available even though there is a better lead-in time this year because student funding and so on is just starting last year?

Mr. WEBB. I notice that on television they had some information about the various grants and so on. This is going to help some.

Mr. LEE. But you haven't seen it reflected in any degree you would like to?

Mr. WEBB. No, no.

Dr. BROWN. No.

Mr. LEE. Again I'm not from this area, and I'm at a disadvantage because I'm not too familiar with your college. Do you have a college work-study program?

Mr. WEBB. Yes.

Dr. BROWN. Yes.

Mr. LEE. And I take it this is helpful to the institution?

Dr. BROWN. Very helpful to the institution. As a matter of fact we need the appropriation raised tremendously-we definitely need—you see, at Florida Memorial College we firmly believe that a student ought to work for his education, not a handout, but the college work-study program at our institution ought to be raised by three or four hundred thousand dollars a year above its present level.

Mr. LEE. Which is?

Dr. BROWN. Which is about $349,000.

Mr. LEE. So you think double the amount

Dr. BROWN [interposing]. Double.

Mr. LEE [continuing]. Of the college work-study would provide the kind of experience for your students that you would like? Dr. BROWN. Yes; that's true.

Mr. LEE. And does that include co-op education?

Dr. BROWN. Well, a cooperative educational program of ours under title III this year-for next year was not funded. We had a small grant of $35,000 for the year that we operated on now that expires June 30.

So that we are in the process of preparing a proposal under the new title for next year in the amount of at least $75,000 for a cooperative educational program.

Mr. LEE. I see.

Mr. WEBB. I would hope that some consideration would be given to upgrade that program in the amount of money we get. You see, what happens is

Mr. LEE [interposing]. This is cooperative education you're talking about?

Mr. WEBB. The cooperative education program-they gave us about $10,000, $12,000 to begin a program with a couple of years ago. You can't do that. You can't start a program with $10,000. That's a salary almost, you know, in a sense.

Dr. BROWN. You can't hire a good, competent person.

Mr. WEBB. For some reason they expected us to do tremendous work with that, and we just could not do it. We did the best we could, you know, with the staff that we had that was a part of another program, but you just can't take a program and begin it. Now, I can imagine after a program has started and is well on the road we could do with less than $100,000 or something like, but with $10,000-12-I think it was about 15; wasn't it?

Dr. BROWN. It wasn't much more than $15,000.

Mr. WEBB. We received about $15,000 to begin a program as important as co-op education in Dade County.

Dr. BROWN. And, you see, one of the things as a part of our curriculum we believe that every degree granting department ought to have students as a part of their experience work in the real world.

For instance business administration, no student graduates from the division of business administration unless he works in a bank or he works in some business doing something. The same thing

Mr. LEHMAN [interposing]. Do you give academic credit for that? Dr. BROWN. Yes; we give academic credit for it.

Mr. LEHMAN. Can they take that academic credit and transfer to another college?

Dr. BROWN. It depends upon the institution and their outlook on things and so forth.

There are some things that we're trying to do that I think would be of interest in terms of-in other words when a student graduates with a degree in accounting, as the result of having worked with Alexander Grant Accounting Firm or Touche Ross or somebody, he ought to be willing and ready then to sit for the C.P.A. exam immediately after he gets out, and then also if he gets a job with Touche Ross, they don't have to spend so much money training him because he knows the accounting procedures that are used at that company and so on. So this is the kind of thing that we're trying to do.

Mr. LEHMAN. It makes the transition easier.

Dr. BROWN. Yes.

Mr. LEHMAN. I thank you gentlemen for coming up and giving us another slant on the way that you're trying to work the problems out at Florida Memorial. Tel! Dr. Puryear that-send him my best regards.

Dr. BROWN. Thank you. Mr. Lehman.

Mr. WEBB. Thank you, Mr. Lehman.

Mr. LEHMAN. Now, that concludes the regular witnesses on the agenda, but I do have a gentleman here who has requested to make an appearance.

Mr. John Miskoff, if you would like to come up, and we will enter your testimony into the record.

STATEMENT OF JOHN MISKOFF, MIAMI, FLA.

Mr. MISKOFF. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for giving me this time. I'm a naturalized citizen, who has been blessed by God and this country to be of such means to have established an educational foundation that is operating right now in nine different institutions in this country and abroad.

My purpose in coming

Mr. LEHMAN [interposing]. Could you identify yourself as to your name, your address the name of your company for the record?

Mr. MISKOFF. I'm John Miskoff, individual, naturalized citizen, nothing more. I live in 665 Northeast 58th Street, Miami, Fla., and I have been there of course for the last 40 some years.

My purpose in this trying to give you an idea what I am doing, which I think is as good as any human being to do something for this country for the human race which is exactly what my purpose in establishing those educational funds.

My funds are available to any person who is mentally and physically fit, who is of such character that by receiving this help he is willing to pay it back to the institution which is educating him so that somebody else can use it.

In other words after I give it to the institution, I'm through with it, but I have like anything else rules and means to govern the funds. When I saw this in the paper, as soon as I saw it I called up and came over here. I figured this was one chance that also it sounds like a small way, a joking way you might say, a competition with the Government.

It is a program that can literally flourish and grow up everyday because my funds will be going to those institutions indefinitely. Every year those funds will go in, and if you stop to figure that those people that receive those funds will give them back to the institutions, with about 25, 50 or 100 it's easy to grow up to a tremendous affair.

That's exactly what my will provides, that those funds will go onto people that are worth of it. My intention up here is possibility that the Government might be interested as insuring those funds on me like they do with others with the banks and other people, I mean you know, to the institutions, not to me, so as to create more or less a psychological incentive on nothing else for those people to try to pay it back.

Anymore than that, as far as your organization is concerned, as far as the Government is concerned, it really doesn't matter except the fact that by this being known it may wake up some others to do this in the same position that I am that may do something like that. I don't have to tell you if enough of them do this, I mean you know, it can go up to a tremendous affair.

Mr. LEHMAN. This is an interesting concept. I wonder about some of the ramifications such as whether you could loan my son money to go to college and get it government insured, rather than my son going to the institutions to borrow money for the same amount. Mr. MISKOFF. Not me, the institutions.

Mr. LEHMAN. You give the money to the institutions?

Mr. MISKOFF. Once I give it to the institutions, it's not my money. Mr. LEHMAN. Well, the institutions get a certain amount of Government guarantees now on their direct loans; don't they?

Mr. MISKOFF. Not on mine.

Mr. LEHMAN. That's right, they have to come from the Federal Government first.

Mr. MISKOFF. You're right. That is only the purpose I'm up here. Mr. LEHMAN. I see.

Mr. MISKOFF. And as I say, just two purposes only two things that brought me to this meeting. That is one of them.

The second thing is if this is advertised and known, there must be another peoples as crazy as I am, you know, to establish something similar to this and not like it.

Mr. LEHMAN. Well, I'll request counsel on both sides to meet with you after this meeting, to get some more details on it, and when they go back to the Capitol to look into this matter see what the feasibility of this could be.

Mr. MISKOFF. I'll be happy to cooperate in any way I can.

Mr. LEHMAN. And I can see that it's a whole new area if it can be administered and if it is legal and it certainly could be productive. Thank you for taking the time to come here and planting a new germ of an idea.

Mr. MISKOFF. Thank you for giving me the time.

Mr. LEHMAN. At this point I just want to once again thank everybody for coming. I think these hearings have been productive, and we're going to take this information back to Washington and hopefully incorporate it in the legislative action that this committee will soon complete in regards to student assistance in higher education. Thank you very much.

[Whereupon, at 2:45 p.m., the subcommittee adjourned.]