any of this amount goes for the actual purchase of articles from the United Kingdom? Secretary WICKARD. No, sir. Mr. O'NEAL. Of the part that you have, is there anything going for purchases from the United Kingdom, or from any other of these countries? Secretary WICKARD. I do not know of any purchases. LEND-LEASE IN REVERSE Mr. O'NEAL. I understood Mr. Stettinius to say-and I think it is a wise thing to do that in some places, where the material is available, instead of shipping it over there, they will actually buy it in the local markets. Mr. STETTINIUS. They lend-lease them back to us, and there is no transfer of funds. Mr. O'NEAL. Suppose there is material in some place for rubber tires, and you have agreed to furnish the United Kingdom with tires. Rubber would be the only thing that you would want. In that case, what would be the fiscal transaction? Mr. STETTINIUS. We would not want the rubber. We will say it is needed in Australia, and rather than bring the rubber across the ocean and make the tires or tubes, we would leave the rubber there. Mr. O'NEAL. From whom would you buy it? Mr. STETTINIUS. We would not buy it. Mr. O'NEAL. How would you acquire it? Mr. STETTINIUS. We would not acquire it. The Australians would use the tires themselves, but instead of manufacturing the tires here, we would send them molds and chemicals that they would use in making their own tires. Mr. O'NEAL. What would be the financial involvement in that? Mr. STETTINIUS. We would supply the molds and some chemicals. Mr. O'NEAL. All we would do would be to supply part of the material? Mr. STETTINIUS. Yes, sir. Mr. O'NEAL. There is nothing in connection with this where we make any actual purchases from any foreign country, or any of the countries mentioned in the bill, of any material on the market? Mr. STETTINIUS. With the exception of Peru, Iceland, and Cuba, already referred to. Mr. O'NEAL. We make no purchases from the United Kingdom for any of this program? Mr. STETTINIUS. That is right. Mr. O'NEAL. That is all. Mr. Chairman. The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Taber. BALANCES IN PREVIOUS ALLOCATIONS FOR AGRICULTURAL COMMODITIES Mr. TABER. I want to go back to this appropriation that is before us, and to ask a few questions relative to that. On page 11, it appears that there have been appropriations for agricultural, industrial, and other commodities of this nature, available, or there seems to have been available, according to the last report, $3,043,000,000. How much of that is obligated now for the purchase of agricultural commodities? Secretary WICKARD. $1,300,000,000. Mr. TABER. From the previous appropriation? Mr. STETTINIUS. As of January 31, there was allocated to the Department of Agriculture $994,000,000, and they had obligated as of that date $660,000,000. They had actually expended as of that date $420,000,000. Mr. TABER. How much had they shipped? Mr. GAUMNITZ. Approximately $470,000,000. Mr. TABER. That would hardly go. They would be shipping more than they had paid for. Mr. STETTINIUS. I have given you the score board as of January 31. Mr. GAUMNITZ. There was a little delay in the actual transfers. That is the reason for the difference in the figures. Mr. TABER. You mean that they have shipped about $470,000,000 worth? Mr. GAUMNITZ. Actually there are more shipments than expenditures charged to lend-lease at any particular time. Mr. TABER. I would like to have you give me that picture broken down as to each item that appears here on page 11 of this statement... You have $334,000,000 that was not obligated out of the last allotment, and that does not include the $500,000,000 reserve that is set up in the appropriation for that particular purpose. Secretary WICKARD. That is right. Mr. TABER. Within what time do you expect to obligate that sum? Secretary WICKARD. We have all of that obligated except about $150,000,000. We will have it obligated by February 28. Mr. TABER. By the end of February you expect to obligate all of that? Secretary WICKARD. All but $150,000,000. Mr. TABER. The $500,000,000 you are not expecting to obligate by the end of the present year? Secretary WICKARD. No, sir. Mr. TABER. How rapidly do you expect to use the $1,300,000,000? How much of that do you expect to obligate within the next 9 or 10 months? Do you expect to obligate it within that time? Secretary WICKARD. Yes, sir; within 10 months. We will also spend the $150,000,000, or that will be obligated between now and February 28. Mr. TABER. You expect all of it to be obligated by the 1st of March? Secretary WICKARD. Yes, sir. Let me explain that. I think we are straight on it. We are asking $1,300,000,000 here, and there will be $150,000,000 left out of the previous appropriation. I think we will probably use the $1,300,000,000 plus the $150,000,000 between now and December 31, 1942. Now, that is a long way off, and what will happen between now and then nobody knows. I do not know what the shipping situation will be, and I do not know how the Russian matters will turn out. We have set up $202,000,000 that would go to Russia, and more may go to Russia than that. The allocation must be made flexible. These are the estimates, but they do not necessarily bind us to shipping them to those countries in the amounts that we have named here this morning. Mr. TABER. You do not have to state exactly what you will ship to anybody. We do not expect that you will be bound to that, or as to the amounts. As to the amount that you are planning to obligate, I understand that the $1,300,000,000 will be obligated within 10 months. Secretary WICKARD. I understand that it is figured that it would be $1,450,000,000. Mr. TABER. That is what you would get by the 1st of March. You are not including the reserve. Secretary WICKARD. No, sir. Mr. TABER. That would mean from $160,000,000 to $200,000,000 of average shipments between now and the 1st of June? Secretary WICKARD. Do not let us get shipments, allocations, and obligations confused. Mr. TABER. Well, they have told me that your shipments to date ran practically up to your obligations. Now, I would like to have something showing what you are anticipating. Secretary WICKARD. I expect all the funds which have previously been appropriated, and all of the proposed $1,300,000,000, to be obligated by the end of this year with the exception of the $500,000,000, and that, as I say, is just an estimate. We may have to come up here and ask for more before the end of the year, or we may have some left over; but that is the best estimate we have. Mr. TABER. Have you demand enough in sight from other countries that is, requests enough-for these shipments to cover these figures? Secretary WICKARD. Yes, sir. I will be quite frank about it. Our request to Mr. Stettinius's office was for a little more than what is here. Mr. TABER. Was that based upon requests from abroad? Secretay WICKARD. It was based upon requests and our ability to supply, and what we thought was needed by them. Mr. TABER. Can you give us that information broken down as to this table that I requested, or is it not possible for you to do that? Mr. GAUMNITZ. Do you mean a break-down of that entire sum, item by item? Mr. TABER. Yes; as to obligations, expenditures and shipments. Mr. GAUMNITZ. I would doubt whether it ought to go in the record. We can supply the figures. The CHAIRMAN. Without objection, it will be given off the record. Mr. TABER. How long would it take you to do that? Mr. GAUMNITZ. A day. Mr. TABER. I think that is all I care to ask. PROPORTION OF LEND-LEASE FOOD TO TOTAL BRITISH NEEDS Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Mr. Secretary, what is the monthly rate to the United Kingdom doing? Is it increasing or is it on a level? Secretary WICKARD. I might tell you the trends as we started in. Last summer the rate of shipment increased much more rapidly than we foresaw, and if you will remember, Mr. Wigglesworth, we were given, I think, about $300,000,000 out of the first lend-lease appropriation, but we spent between $450,000,000 and $500,000,000 out of that. So you can see that the shipments went up very fast, and they continued to increase until December, I believe, when there was a leveling off, and at the present time the rate of shipment is not as high as it was in October and November. (Discussion off the record.) Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. You have told us, I think, when we discussed this item previously, that we were assuming about 25 percent of the food burden for Great Britain. Secretary WICKARD. About 25 percent of the protein needs for Great Britain; yes. Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. That has increased? Secretary WICKARD. Yes; about 25 to 28 percent, I think our figures are now. Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. What steps, if any, is the Department of Agriculture taking to see that our shipments to Great Britain are required for their actual needs and not going beyond that point? Secretary WICKARD. We have had two of our people there. The Under Secretary of Agriculture and Mr. Evans, of triple A, have been in England and have made observations as to the diets of the people, the distribution of food, the way our products are arriving, whether they are properly packaged and properly preserved; and, as I said a while ago, three men are leaving very shortly, and those men are in addition to the men in Mr. Harriman's office and those men who are attached to Mr. Winant's office. Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. You are satisfied, as far as the agricultural portion of this appropriation is concerned, that we are not exceeding what is absolutely essential for those to whom we are shipping? Secretary WICKARD. Mr. Appleby's and Mr. Evan's observation was that the English people, when they were there, were not getting sufficient food for their dietary needs in order to keep up as they should their civilian production, and I believe they were told by some of the people that if they could have all of the food that they really would like to have, and really needed, their war production might step up 15 or 20 percent. I am satisfied that they need all we are shipping, and more. SURPLUS AGRICULTURAL PRODUCTS IN STORAGE Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. To what extent do the agricultural supplies that we are sending come out of things that we are storing in this country? Are we cutting down those items at all? Secretary WICKARD. Yes, sir; we are, with the possible exception of wheat. That is, we are not shipping any wheat, and our consumption of wheat in this country is not increasing. As a matter of fact, I believe it is decreasing a little. Of course, if we can get some wheat into the production of dairy, meat, and poultry products, and those products are shipped, that will help to cut down, to some extent, at least, the surplus of wheat. Now, the amount of corn that is in storage undoubtedly is going to be a lot less because of increased livestock and poultry feeding, and the amount of cotton that has been shipped, of course, cuts down the surplus of cotton. There has been quite a little tobacco shipped under lend-lease arrangements, and the tobacco consumption apparently increases with the war effort in any country. So I can say that there has been a material decrease in the amounts of agricultural products in storage with the exception of wheat. The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Mr. Secretary. FRIDAY, FEBRUARY 13, 1942. CATEGORY 9-SERVICES AND EXPENSES-NAVY DEPARTMENT AIRPLANE PILOT TRAINING The CHAIRMAN. We will take up the Navy pilot training item, which is for training airplane pilots of other nations. USE OF LEND-LEASE FUNDS IN 1943 NAVAL APPROPRIATION ACT Captain Hendren, we have an item here of $5,000,000 for Navy pilot training; but in the Naval Appropriation Act for 1943 we authorized the use of 22 billion dollars for lend-lease. Would it be in keeping to charge this $5,000,000 to that 22 billions? Captain HENDREN. Mr. Chairman, I think the only objection to that is a purely legal or mechanical one, in that the Navy Department appropriation bill provides for the transfer of finished items of munitions and not for the transfer of services such as the pilot training would fall into. In other words, this $5,000,000 is to pay for the tuition, subsistence and housing of British student pilots. The CHAIRMAN. I have the impression-my memory may be amiss on that but I have the impression that we provided that 212 billion dollars, out of that fund should be used for any lend-lease purposes. Is there any restriction under which it could not be used for such a purpose as this? Captain HENDREN. I think there is, Mr. Chairman. I think the language in the Navy Department appropriation bill provides for lease, transfer, sale, and so forth, of items, and not services. The CHAIRMAN. Here is section 301 of title III of the Defense Aid Act. It speaks of— any other defense article procured from the funds appropriated in this act. You do not think you would be authorized to use the $5,000,000 for that purpose under that language? Captain HENDREN. If you could consider pilot training a defense article. There certainly is no argument, Mr. Chairman, as to the fact that the 212 billion dollars represents an extreme lack of restriction in the Navy Department appropriation bill. The only thing I am interested in, and any officer is interested in, is making sure that we do not get ourselves maneuvered into a position where we cannot continue the pilot training under the language incorporated in the Navy Department Appropriation Act. The CHAIRMAN. We have with us here Mr. Cox, of the lend-lease staff. Mr. Cox, what, in your opinion, would be the latitude allowed here in the use of this 21/2 billion dollars for lend-lease? Could we, |