Newport Bayou Teche and Vermilion River. Status of definite project report for each of 182 projets of fiscal year 1951 program when initial construction funds were requested by Corps of Engineers-Con. C. SUMMARY REPORT DATA USED, WITH COSTS BROUGHT UP TO DATE BY INDEXES IN SOME CASES-continued Name Flood control-Continued New Albany. Coralville Reservoir. Little Sioux River. Missouri River agricultural levees. Kansas City. Wichita and Valley Center. Dewey Reservoir Louisville.. Wolf Creek Reservoir. Mermentau River.. Shreveport-‒‒‒ Cumberland and Ridgeley Knightville Reservoir Red Run..-. Red Lake and Clearwater Rivers. Red River of the North__ Chariton River_____ Perry County levee district Nos. 1, 2, and 3.. Jemez Canyon Reservoir. Montour Falls Date of authorization 1938 1938 1947 1944 1936 and 1944 1936 1938 1938 1937 1938 1941 1941 and 1946 1944 1936 and 1946 1938 and 1941 1948 1944 1948 1944 1936 1948 1941 Sacramento River (Sacramento deep-water channel) 1946 1946 1945 1946 St. Marys River, new power plant. McNary lock and dam. Schuylkill River above Fairmount Dam_ Total, 89 projects. 1945 1945 1946 Status of definite project report for each of 182 projects of fiscal year 1951 program when initial construction funds were requested by Corps of Engineers-Con. D. DEFINITE PROJECT REPORT PROCEDURE NOT REQUIRED Mississippi River between the Ohio and Missouri Mississippi River between the Missouri River and 1946 and 1950 1918 and 1945 1935 1907 to 1945 1899 to 1950 1874 to 1946 1927 to 1946 1881 to 1930 1930 to 1950 1910 and 1918 1827 to 1930 1927 and 1945 1937 to 1946 1925 to 1946 1935 1946 1836 to 1946 1917 and 1945 1825 to 1946 1930 and 1946 1870 to 1946 1912 to 1945 1935 to 1944 1907 to 1945 1935 and 1950 1912 to 1945 1935 to 1945 1913 to 1937 1884 to 1937 1896 to 1946 1899 to 1945 1935 to 1945 General, definite project studies are the preliminary and tentative studies that go into the definite project report when that is later completed; is that a fair statement? General PICK. Well, a section of the definite project report Mr. DONNELLY. No; my question was as to definite project studies. General PICK. Definite project studies would be for a particular item of work or a portion of a project that was going to be included in a separate contract as a general rule, and all of those together would go together, and when put together would form the definite project report. Mr. DONNELLY. Then do I understand that a definite project study is tantamount to a sectional definite project report? Mr. SLICHTER. It could be or otherwise. Mr. DONNELLY. Generally speaking, is not a definite project study a preliminary form or part of the definite project report? Mr. SLICHTER. It would require quite a description of that report to analyze that. However, a definite project study could be an analysis of the design of a structure, it could be hydrological conditions affecting it. It is information which goes together to prepare the design of the project in order to proceed with the plans and specifications. General PICK. It comes up with design criteria. Mr. DONNELLY. But it is short of the definite project report, is it not, General? Mr. SLICHTER. Complete, yes. General PICK. Yes, but with a definite project report we give you the same information for the whole job. Mr. DONNELLY. Well, that is information, then, that this committee needs in order to have a reevaluation of the cost-benefit ratio at the time the corps requests initial construction funds, is that correct? General PICK. I do not think the committee would be particularly interested in design criteria. In other words, would the committee be interested in how you are going to pour concrete, what kind of aggregate you are going to use, how it would be formed, or the working conditions under which it would be poured or the compacting of earth into a dam? I do not know. I cannot speak for the committee, of course, but I doubt whether it would be interested in having all of that data. Mr. DONNELLY. General, I am inclined to agree with the view you just expressed, and that is why I got this specimen of a definite project report and brought it up here to show it to the committee. General PICK. Yes. Mr. DONNELLY. Those final data you just referred to are contained in the appendix to the report. The 31-page narrative summary in the beginning is in nontechnical language that this committee would understand, just as Congress understands the survey report. General PICK. Yes. You indicated on the memorandum you have on there, in section c. you say, "Survey report data used as basis, with costs brought up to date by indices in some cases", 89 of the projects, 89 of the 182. Mr. DONNELLY. General, I did not prepare this; your own office did. General PICK. I just wanted to point out there that that is a broad statement there. I doubt whether b. and c. would not be thrown together before they are considered-now if you have enough data in the survey report to allow the design to be made, then that would take the place of a definite project study, so that the two together, in my opinion, 89 and 18 ought to be thrown in together. I wish we had enough data on all of the survey reports so that we would not have to go through that later analyzing. Mr. DONNELLY. Yes, but until you go through that analyzing the Appropriations Committee cannot have a sound cost estimate upon which to determine whether to construct a project, is that right? General PICK. I cannot speak for the committee; I do not know. I have the impression that the committee feels that we have not given them the amount of information that other agencies of Government are providing for them. If that is the case we ought to know how we are lacking and what we are lacking. Mr. DAVIS. Of course, we do not have any other agencies which come before us doing a similar type of work. The Bureau of Reclamation, for instance, presents their request to the Subcommittee on the Department of the Interior. We have nothing to compare it with. General PICK. You know, so far as the Bureau of Reclamation is concerned, the Bureau of Reclamation never makes known their estimates when they let work. Mr. DAVIS. They never make known their estimates when they let work? General PICK. No, they never make known how much the Government figures that work is worth. They open a contract and get 15 bids, they get bids, but a fellow would never know what the Government estimate is. We put out more information than any other construction agency in the Government. We have always tried to give Congress everything they wanted. Now, it seems to be Mr. Donnelly's opinion and, perhaps, that of his staff, that we have not been giving them enough. Well, I assure you we are perfectly willing and ready to give the committee any and all of the information they will ask for, sir. This is all factual data that he has here; this is factual data. Most of this has been published, has it not, Mr. Donnelly? Mr. DONNELLY. That is correct with respect to some. The other information has been supplied by the corps to the committee staff on request. General PICK. This is all factual data. We have nothing to hide. You are talking about these definite project reports. This happens to be a small one. You know there are some others that would stand up like this [indicating]. RECOMMENDED IMPROVEMENT FOR FURNISHING APPROPRIATIONS COMMITTEE VITAL DATA Mr. DONNELLY. I do not want to be confused and I do not want you to be confused. I am not talking about this whole book. I am talking about the 31 pages in the front, the narrative summary which is in nontechnical terminology, and which is analogous to this which was printed by Congress, this in my left hand, this survey report. General PICK. I do not know what is in that, but if the committee were to ask us to present these we would certainly do it. I do not know how much it would cost us to get it up. How many projects do we have in this year's budget? Mr. BEARD. About 160, including planning items. General PICK. Suppose they average 10 pages, that is 1,600 pages. Mr. DONNELLY. I would imagine that they would average 30 pages. General PICK. Now, that is a lot of reading. When we come before the committee they have always made us boil stuff down just as low as we can. I am not objecting to giving it to the committee I just want to give the committee what they want, but I want the committee to know that it costs money to get this up. Now, if it is desired that we do that, and it would run that many pages, we would certainly provide it. Now, then, I would like to say to the committee, do not make me spend the time to go out and make up all of these definite project reports and have them all completed and have them finally in writing before I come before Congress and ask for funds to start a project. Mr. DONNELLY. You should not have to do that, and your own subordinates in the last 6 weeks, in informal discussions which I have had with them in your office, have expressed their personal views, not yours, of course, because they had not cleared with you in advance, that the preparation of a planning report between the survey report and between the definite project report would be beneficial to the Corps of Engineers and I, in my view, feel it would be beneficial to this committee and to the Appropriations Committee of the Senate because it would formalize planning at some stage before the initial construction funds were appropriated. General PICK. My staff has never told me that, sir. I am positive if they told you that they were sincere. They would not broach it to me to change a system which is in effect now unless there were indications from the committee that they wanted it changed. Now, then, Mr. Donnelly, the role of the Chief of Engineers of the United States Army is the most difficult one in Washington. I have got to work for everybody and his brother now. Now, when we go to make up one of these budgets we take it into the Military Establishment over yonder and into the Army Comptroller's Office over there and to people who know nothing about what we are talking about around here, and I have to go through all of that, and they want this and they want that. Now, then, when they get through with it I can take it over to the budget. Now, the budget has very definite and exacting rules under which they want me to work, and things that they want me to give. These data sheets which we furnish the committee they have asked for, and they want those same data sheets, and they are very meticulous about how to get them and when to get them. Now, then, if we make up this planning report, and I do not object to it, I do not believe that will satisfy the Bureau of the Budget. They will want the data sheets made up, and I feel sure we will have to make up the data sheets because in running over them, Mr. Chairman, project by project, 30 pages is too much to have in front of you and follow it very closely. Mr. DONNELLY. If I may interject for a minute, the Public Works Committee, though, has this 30- or 40-page document known as the |