Captain INGERSOLL. If the effect of that amendment is to continue Senator MYERS. Suppose the effect of that is to freeze your present bargeload traffic. Captain INGERSOLL. The trouble is the traffic on the river is never static. It is always in a state of flux. Business changes. Traffic declines or goes off the river. New traffic comes on the river. No barge line is handling the same thing as it was 20 years ago, and no barge line 20 years from now will be handling the same thing it is handling today. Senator MYERS. I do not understand it to limit you that way. Of course you will get new customers, and old customers will go out of business, and there will probably be new lines of merchandise that you will transport. But I am just wondering if you are limited from expanding, substantially expanding, your present bargeload traffic, whether you think you will still be able to stay in the black. Captain INGERSOLL. As long as we have a backlog of bulk and bargeload traffic not substantially less than what we have now, we are a safe bet to stay in the black. Senator MYERS. That is a complete answer to my question. Thank you. Senator LONG. I was asked whether under the Wherry amendment Federal Barge Lines would be able to handle bargeload shipments of sugar and coffee from, let us say, New Orleans into Burlington, Iowa. Have you ever considered that question, whether they could do that? Captain INGERSOLL. Well, from a practical point of view I would say "yes," because nobody else is providing that service. Senator LONG. In other words, the Wherry amendment takes care of that situation by providing that you can have that bargeload service where other carriers are not ready, willing, and able to offer the same bargeload service? Captain INGERSOLL. That is my impression. We are today handling bargeload sugar into Burlington. Senator LONG. However, when the other carriers evidenced they were ready, willing and able to take over that shipment, that would be their field of operation? Is that correct? Captain INGERSOLL. I do not so understand it. I do not understand that that amendment involves a progressive curtailment of our bargeload traffic. I only understand that it puts a ceiling of sorts on bargeload traffic. Senator LONG. There would certainly be nothing to prevent them from coming in and competing once you had established and opened up that new channel of trade, would there? Captain INGERSOLL. That is a very healthy situation. Senator LONG. And they could compete at the same rates you compete at? As a matter of fact, you do not cut the rates of the private carriers, do you? Captain INGERSOLL. We have not consciously offered rates to shippers less than the private operators operating in competition with us. Senator LONG. Generally, in setting your rates for barge-load traffic, have you not followed the rate set by private carriers? Captain INGERSOLL. Yes, sir, where there are other rates on the same service. Senator LONG. I would like to ask this question, too. What is your impression of the argument by some of these Texas ports in opposition to the operation of Federal Barge Lines on the Mississippi River? Captain INGERSOLL. I think they neglect the fact that Texas has been as much the beneficiary of the Federal Barge Lines as has Louisiana. The vast amount of traffic to and from the Gulf coast is by rail. The rail rates to and from Texas are, generally speaking, the same as the rail rates to and from Louisiana. The rail rate structure, so I am told, is very largely influenced by the barge rates on the Mississippi River, the net result being that whenever a rate to and from Louisiana is adjusted on account of barge competition, that adjustment is reflected in the Texas rates. It is also a fact that the complete joint rate structure by barge includes the entire State of Texas; from any place in Texas, rates apply on a vast spread of commodities by barge either through New Orleans or Baton Rouge or Vicksburg or Memphis to and from upper valley points. Senator LONG. That is because of your joint water-rail rates, I take it. Is that right? Captain INGERSOLL. That is correct. Senator LONG. What kind of savings would that mean for those Texas points? Captain INGERSOLL. I have before me an exhibit which was made up. I will perhaps just select some typical things. From Janesville, Wis., to Houston on a joint rate, a 36,000-pound carload of canned goods involves a saving under the all-rail rate of $49.14 a car. From Austin, Tex., to St. Paul, Minn., on a joint rate by barge-rail combination, a carload of cotton linters of 40,000 pounds moves at a saving of $63 a car. From Port Neches in Texas, a carload of synthetic rubber of 60,000 pounds will move on barge-rail combination to Akron, Ohio, at a saving under the all-rail rate of $44 a car. And so on, ad infinitum. There is a tremendously complex structure. Senator LONG. I would like to ask the chairman if it would be too burdensome to submit that chart on Texas rates. Senator MYERS. I would be very happy to have it; surely. Senator LONG. It might take up two or three pages, but that will make the situation clear. (The chart referred to follows:) Typical examples of savings in transportation charges accruing to the shipping public using the differential rates offered by Federal Barge Lines as compared to all-rail rates Typical examples of savings in transportation charges accruing to the shipping public using the differential rates offered by Federal Barge Lines as compared to all-rail rates-Continued a=S. W. L. F. T. No. 1, Agent D. Q. Marsh's I. C. C. No. 3648. b=S. W. L. F. T. No. 2-A, Agent D. Q. Marsh's I. C. C. No. 3700. c=Item 3730-F. B. L. F. T. No. 16-L, Agent W. G. Oliphant's I. C. C. No. A-57. d={Item 3710*-F. B. L. F. T. No. 16-L, Agent W. G. Oliphant's I. C. C. No. A-57. e=Items 3750 and 3770-F. B. L. F. T. No. 16-L, Agent W. G. Oliphant's I. C. C. No. Item 3810* A-57. f=Class 22, S. W. L. F. T. No. 251-B, Agent D. Q. Marsh's I. C. C. No. 3527. g=Class 23, S. W. L. F. T. No. 153-B, Agent D. Q. Marsh's I. C. C. No. 3493. h= Class 23, F. B. L. F. T. No. 13-N, Agent W. G. Oliphant's I. C. C. No. A-450. j-F. B. L. F. T. No. 16-L, Agent W. G. Oliphant's I. C. C. No. A-57 (Item 6050-G). k-S. W. L. F. T. No. 259, Agent D. Q. Marsh's I. C. C. No. 3748. R-B=Rail lines (Rock Island, Ill.), FBL (Baton Rouge, La.) rail lines. H=FBL (Helena, Ark.) rail lines. N=Rail lines (New Orleans) FBL. 1 Based on minimum weights shown in column 3. 2 Surcharge of 5 percent is in addition. Surcharge of 4 percent is in addition. B-P=Rail lines (Baton Rouge, La.), FBL (Peoria, Ill.) rail lines. Senator LONG. In other words, practically the entire State of Texas is in position to enjoy joint rail rates of water and rail transportation? Captain INGERSOLL. That is correct. Senator MYERS. Senator Reed, any questions? Senator REED. No questions. Senator LONG. Could I ask you this point? What is being done to your knowledge by the Coyle Lines and lines operating between New Orleans and Houston, Tex., on less-than-bargeload shipments? Captain INGERSOLL. The Coyle Line has a joint rate structure with the Federal Barge Lines to offer all-water service on less-than-bargeload quantities from Mississippi River points to Houston and perhaps Galveston. No traffic moves on those rates. I am not too clear why that is the case. If any traffic appears, it is my understanding that it is moved on by truck. Perhaps it is because the volume is too small to justify their actually handling the traffic. Senator LONG. You think it might be partly because Houston and Galveston people do not know about those joint rates between Coyle Lines and Federal Barge Lines? Captain INGERSOLL. That might well be the case. gaged in no solicitation in Texas in recent years. We have en Senator LONG. Is there, in your opinion, an excellent possibility for development of trade between Houston and Chicago and St. Louis, for example, by water? Captain INGERSOLL. No question of it. Before the war it is my understanding upwards of 200 cars a week moved out of Texas or into Texas by Federal Barge Lines. Senator LONG. Are you using your containers that you have been studying and developing on the Coyle Lines? In other words, when you use a container for Federal Barge Lines' less-than-bargeload shipments, do you ever transfer those containers from Federal Barge Lines to some other line and ship them on out? Captain INGERSOLL. There is an operator on the canal who has a container operation on a small scale with which we have participated in some traffic. Senator LONG. Who is that operator? Captain INGERSOLL. Gulf Canal Lines. Senator LONG. What experience has he had with the containers? Is he operating it successfully? Captain INGERSOLL. I am not too familiar with the details. It has been my superficial impression that his water-line operation has been very unsuccessful and his terminal operation, getting the freight to and from the barges, has been quite successful. The combination, I am told, is unsuccessful-I believe because of lack of volume. Senator LONG. What type of barges does the Gulf Canal Line use? Captain INGERSOLL. I think they are just pieces of different landing craft welded together. The operation is too small. Senator LONG. Not at all designed for that type of operation? Captain INGERSOLL. That operation is too small to do any good. That is the whole thing. Senator REED. Mr. Chairman, I hope Senator Long can confine his questions. I would like to get this proceeding over with. Senator LONG. No further questions. |