Mr. TALCOTT. It was your idea?

Mr. WESTOFF. I wouldn't put it quite that way.
Mr. TALCOTT. How did you do this, then?

Mr. ROCKEFELLER. One of the five areas that is covered in this legislation, the fifth one, does refer to the moral and ethical. We felt a special responsibility on it. This organization that we have the contract with is a young group who is taking sort of a fresh look in this field. Our feeling was, as Mr. Westoff has said, we could get directly from the religious bodies their views. This would give us kind of a fresh acrossthe-board approach that might be stimulating and meaningful to us. Mr. TALCOTT. Could we get some young groups that have some conventional ideas, too?

Mr. ROCKEFELLER. This does not mean, sir, that they are way out. We did not look for somebody like that.

Mr. TALCOTT. Under what category did you undertake this unwanted child bearing survey?

What one of these categories would you say that came under?
Mr. WESTOFF. No. 1.

Mr. TALCOTT. The probable course of population growth.

Mr. WESTOFF. Yes.

Mr. TALCOTT. Internal migration.

Mr. WESTOFF. Probable course of growth is the question it relates to, also it has some bearing on the fifth one, too.

Mr. TALCOTT. The ethical part?

Mr. WESTOFF. Yes.

Mr. TALCOTT. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

UNWANTED CHILDREN

Mr. PRYOR. On your statement regarding unwanted children, I believe the years you mentioned were 1960 to 1965. You said that 20 percent of all children born in the United States in this period of time were unwanted. What do you mean by unwanted and how did you arrive at this conclusion?

Mr. WESTOFF. This was a national probability sample survey of something like 5,000 married women across the country.

Mr. PRYOR. Who did this survey?

Mr. WESTOFF. It was financed originally by the National Institutes of Health in contract with Princeton University and I was at Princeton and I applied for it and did it. The actual field work was subcontracted to an interviewing organization. They were professional female interviewers. Then we developed an interview schedule and questionnaire and asked a very long series of detailed questions about their pregnancies and the circumstances under which the children had been born and conceived. Then we asked the women to recall whether they ever wanted another child again. On the basis of this kind of information we estimated that something like 20 percent of all the births occurring during the period, in theory would never have occurred, if the will of their parents had prevailed. This is five and a half million births.

Mr. PRYOR. Were these basically in the poor minority races? Is it true that the rate of birth in the poor and what we call minority races today account for the great population growth that we see?

Mr. WESTOFF. No. The bulk of the population growth we experience from year to year is essentially white middle class. There is, however, a very distinct difference in the incidence of unwanted fertility across income groups, let us say, and the burden of unwanted childbearing is considerably greater among the poor people than it is among the middle classes.

PLANNED PARENTHOOD

Mr. PRYOR. What steps are the Federal and State governments taking in the field of planned parenthood? I know you are making studies within your commission, but what else is being done in the field of planned parenthood?

Mr. WESTOFF. The most notable achievement of late, as you know, is the bill that was signed into law by the President in December called the Family Planning Services and Population Research Act of 1970. This provides, or at least authorizes, funds beginning this fiscal year, I believe, for extensive family planning services in contraceptive technology, and into population research. It is a bill, I think, authorizing funds for 3 years. It is really rather a notable achievement.

Mr. PRYOR. I have the feeling a lot of times, and I am not necessarily talking about your Commission, that we are doing an awful lot of studies and research and a lot of report writing. I wonder if we are ever going to translate this into something more. I am sure the Chairman hopes we can.

Mr. ROCKEFELLER. I was involved at the end of the last administration on a President's Committee on Population, and we entitled our report "Family Planning and Population, the Transition From Concern to Action." That is the major concern, I think, by those of us interested in the field.

Mr. PRYOR. That is all.

Mr. BOLAND. Mr. Roush.

Mr. ROUSH. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I do not want to belabor this point but the use of the term "unwanted" bothers me. Because the way you describe or define "unwanted," my fourth son is an unwanted son, and it is not true.

It seems to me in the eyes of the public the use of the term "unwanted" will be somewhat offensive. It is just an observation that I am making.

Mr. WESTOFF. There is a real distinction we have made between unplanned and unwanted.

Mr. ROUSH. Yes; but in your survey you spoke of women not wanting to get pregnant.

Mr. WESTOFF. No; not wanting the child, not wanting to have had another child in the marriage. Most of these were the last children. Mr. ROUSH. I still think there is a distinction. My wife did not want any more children and we had a child which was not planned, but it was not an unwanted child. I think in using the term "unwanted" there is something there that would be offensive to the general public.

Mr. WESTOFF. I quite agree.

LOCATION OF PERSONNEL

Mr. ROUSH. Just another question or two concerning the personnel you have. Do they all work out of one office, the 21 permanent positions?

Mr. WESTOFF. I think so; yes.

Mr. ROUSH. Where is your office located?

Mr. WESTOFF. In the Federal Office Building on Jackson Place.
Mr. ROUSH. Who heads that office?

Mr. WESTOFF. I do.

Mr. ROUSH. Mr. Rockefeller, are you a salaried employee of the Commission?

Mr. ROCKEFELLER. NO.

Mr. ROUSH. I assumed you were not, but I wanted to make sure. Mr. TALCOTT. Per diem?

Mr. ROCKEFELLER. All Commission members get a per diem for the meetings they attend.

Mr. ROUSH. Are the people you have on loan from other Federal agencies, or what is their position?

Mr. WESTOFF. It is a mixture. Some, such as Mr. Parke are on loan from the Census Bureau. We have one on loan from the University of California. I am, in a sense, on loan from Princeton University. It is about half and half. No, I guess it is one quarter on loan and the other people have just taken these jobs for this period of time.

Mr. ROUSH. There won't be a tendency to want to continue the Commission beyond its expected life because of difficulty in obtaining another position somewhere else will there?

Mr. WESTOFF. No.

Mr. ROUSH. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. BOLAND. What is the address on Jackson Place, Mr. Westoff? Mr. WESTOFF. 726.

GENERAL COUNSEL

Mr. BOLAND. I note Mr. Fisher is the counsel. Mr. Fisher, how much time do you spend with the Commission?

Mr. FISHER. I estimate approximately a day a week; maybe 4 or 5 days a month. It does not work in quite that fashion but that is about my approximate time scheduling.

Mr. BOLAND. Do you review the contracts that the Commission makes?

Mr. FISHER. Yes, sir. Every proposal for contract is sent to me to draft the contract and to discuss the terms and conditions.

Mr. BOLAND. Do you have a particular GS grade?

Mr. FISHER. I am hired on an hourly rate basis at a GS-18 level— $17.07 an hour.

Mr. BOLAND. You certainly have a distinguished background and a magnificent legal education. I am sure you bring to the Commission a fine legal mind, and I am delighted to have you with them.

The same applies to the others who accompany the Chairman today. Mr. Lelewer comes from Amherst College, which borders my district.

EQUIPMENT

Let me ask a few questions about the justifications.

On page 3 of the justifications, I notice that you will spend $5,082 for equipment through 1971. Will you submit for the record a list of this equipment, Mr. Westoff? Give the item name and the cost. (The information follows:)

The figure of $5,082 budgeted for fiscal year 1971 includes:

Purchase of typewriters..

Purchase of calculator..

Purchase of dictating/transcribing equipment__

Total....

$1,989 695

2, 398

5, 082

Eighty percent of the equipment in use by the Commission staff (typewriters, calculators, dictating/transcribing, and recording) is borrowed or reassigned equipment, at little or no cost to the Commission. The dollar figure above represents four typewriters (on rental contract under a plan that provides for some cost recovery upon termination), one calculator, and a number of dictating/ transcribing units. Expended to date: $4,100. No other purchases are contemplated.

Mr. BOLAND. Do you have any idea what will happen to the equipment when the commission goes out of business?

Mr. WESTOFF. I do not have the vaguest idea.

Miss BROOKS. The equipment will either revert to the GSA who provide support services to us or it can be turned over to another

agency.

Mr. BOLAND. The quarters that you have at Jackson Place, are they owned by the Federal Government?

Miss BROOKS. That is owned by the Office of Management and Budget.

Mr. BOLAND. Are you in the large red building?

Miss BROOKS. Yes.

Mr. BOLAND. Do you have nice quarters there?

Mr. WESTOFF. Yes.

Mr. BOLAND. On page 3 you indicate a substantial amount for travel; $55,285 through 1971, and through 1972 you are requesting an additional $38,000. How were these amounts developed?

Mr. WESTOFF. Three quarters of the amounts here are for travel of Commissioners for monthly meetings and also for public hearings. The other quarter is for staff.

NUMBER OF PUBLIC HEARINGS

Mr. GIAIMO. If the Chairman will yield, how many public hearings do you plan to have?

Mr. WESTOFF. This is a little uncertain at the moment. We were scheduling originally 10, and we may need to follow through on that schedule. We decided to try to get some experience before we decide the exact number and how profitable it would be and how much interest there would be. So we scheduled four or five from April through June and then we will review this at the end of June and see if we want to continue in the fall.

Five to 10 is the answer to your question.

Mr. GIAIMO. If you have 10 hearings at various points in the country and have to move around-how many people are on the commission?

Mr. WESTOFF. Not all of the commission would go. Three people from the commission and two people from the staff.

Mr. TALCOTT. They can take it out of other services. They have a whale of a lot there.

Mr. WESTOFF. $506,000 of $537,000 is contracts and the rest goes to GSA.

RENT, COMMUNICATIONS AND UTILITIES

Mr. BOLAND. Another item, item 23 on page 3, why will you spend $17,872 on rent, communications, and utilities in 1971? Why this increase in 1972 to $21,997?

Miss BROOKS. I think I can answer that, Mr. Chairman. There is some additional equipment that we thought we would be renting in the coming fiscal year to print our final report. We do not have that equipment right now. A good bit of that is included in that equipment rental, and some of it is included in additional telephone costs.

Mr. ROCKEFELLER. Also, Mr. Chairman, our first year was a 9month year because we did not get started until 3 months after we were brought into being.

Mr. BOLAND. I am still not clear about the $17,872 that you are spending in 1971 on rent, communications and utilities, and why does it increase in 1972 to $21,997?

Miss BROOKS. Equipment rental in the first column jumps from $5,800 to $7,500 the second year, and that is all attributable to a composition machine that will be used for our final report in our office. There is a $2,000 increase in telephone costs from column 1 to column 2.

PRINTING AND REPRODUCTION

Mr. BOLAND. Will you supply the committee a breakdown of your printing requirements so we can have a better understanding how these estimates were developed? You may supply that for the record. (The information follows:)

Interim report (graphics, printing) 1.

Press releases; media (actual Xeroxing and other (e.g., multilith, mimeo) reproduction costs)..

5,050

5,000

Final report (graphics, printing)

5,000

35,000

Total...

12, 550

42,500

Additional printing costs for fiscal year 1972 (interim report in 1971 versus final report in 1972) are also reflected in item 23, "Rent, communications, and utilities":

MTST (this is the machine on which Commission typists will type final manuscript).. MTST Composer (the machine staff typists will operate to convert MT tape to camera ready copy)...

1 Printing includes GPO assessment for the actual printing cost plus the cost of copies delivered to the Commission for distribution.

2 Seven months' rental.

3 Nine months' rental.

4 Four months' rental.

Note: Utilization of these machines precludes the necessity of contracting with a commercial composition house for preparation of camera ready copy for the GPO printers.