able sale, both at home and abroad, but not sufficient to defray the expenses of publication, and leave a profit to the publisher. Would undertake the publication, if Government would grant assistance to the amount of about 20 per cent. It would be best to publish such a work in parts;-80 parts, containing five plates, with eight medals, and their reverses on each, would take in 3200 the number of medals in the Museum collection suitable for such a publication, making five volumes; they could be published at 5s. 6d. a part, if Government paid 20 per cent. of the cost. If he undertook the work, he would make a contract with the parties in Paris for the plates, -the engraving being executed there, and the printing in London. Is not aware of any individual in England who has a machine that would engrave the plates with sufficient accuracy and rapidity. Mr. Bate has attempted it, but witness has never seen any engraving produced by his machine that was altogether satisfactory. Understands that it requires the superintendence of a species of artist, and that consequently the machine must work very slowly; in M. Collas' machine, the process is mechanical. Sir Francis Chantrey. From the specimens of M. Collas' engravings, thinks they are the most satisfactory representations of medals he has seen-more satisfactory than any he has ever seen produced by the ordinary mode by engravings copied from drawings-much more faithful. Edward Hawkins, Esq., Keeper of the Antiquities in the British Museum. Has compared engravings taken by the machine of M. Collas with the medals themselves, and thinks them the most satisfactory copies of medals he has ever seen. One of the excellencies of the mechanical process is, that it does not give any thing but what is upon the medal; it may not give a full and entire representation of all that is there, but the defect is one of deficiency, not of inaccuracy, or rather, not a misrepresentation. The distortion or inaccuracy of the engraving, where the medal is in high relief, in the state to which the machinery has now been brought, do not now strike the eye of an observer as distortions. Is of opinion that the accuracy of casts for the purposes of the machine can be insured; engravings from inferior or inaccurate casts, afterwards compared with the medal itself, would be to the disadvantage of the engraving; for instance, the medal of Henry the Second, with a Greek inscription (among the specimens before the Committee), is copied from an imperfect cast -the inscription is entirely altered, EO AПO is converted into OLOΣ Aro;-the machine has faithfully represented the imperfection of the cast. Any mechanic, with ordinary care and attention, can work M. Collas' machine with success-saw several persons at work in the establishment in which M. Nolte is concerned, and there were several females at work, and it seemed to require nothing but a steady hand-no artistical skill at all. Tried the publication of engravings in outline of the medals in the British Museum collection as a private speculation, but it did not succeed; a publisher also, after having gone to the expense of preparing prospectuses for such a work, abandoned the project on account of the great expense, and the little probability of getting an adequate return. The work would be exceedingly incomplete if confined to the medals in the Museum; there are many in private collections, some even unique, which it would be necessary to comprise in any such pub. lication. Machines for engraving medals have been constructed in America and England, as well as in France; but it is in France where it has been brought nearest to perfection. The specimens before the Committee are all from French machines. Thinks the mechanical part has arrived at its full measure and excellence; but it is difficult to set bounds to any mechanical improvement. The discovery is very good for representing large specimens; but the higher the relief, the more will be the apparent distortion. In a cast of the head of Louis Philippe, about nine inches diameter, engraved by this process, the effect is exceeding good-no distortion is seen. In high relief it is not a distortion of the line to produce an effect, but actually distortion, yet nothing offensive to the eye. Those medals and parts of medals to which the machine is least suited should be retouched by the hand. The machine engraves inscriptions very faithfully, but not so distinctly as is desirable-should there use engraving to assist. For a publication of medals this would be the best, and perhaps the only practicable mode in which it could be executed-the best, as giving the most faithful representation of the medal-and as to expense, the only practicable mode. Sup. posing a medal were to be engraved by the finest artist, and one by the machine, the former would be a more pleasing work to the eye-but not to be trusted to as an historical work so much as the latter; it would not be so faithful a representation of the medal. Supposing the publication to be undertaken at the expense of the public, and therefore to become a national work, and without any re. gard to expense-taking the three modes of executing the engravings-in outline, by the finest artists, and by the machine-into con sideration, the work by the artist would perhaps be the most pleasing and the most honourable to the country; but as an archælogical work, in which is required a faithful representation, witness would adopt machinery, and assist it when necessary by the graving-tool. Sir Francis Chantrey further examined. In proportion as the relief of the medal operated upon by the machine increases, the deviations increase, which so far affect the precise accuracy as not to allow measurements from the centre to agree-but not so as to make the representation unsatisfactory, being aware of the uniform deviation in the machine; by the common method of engraving you are subject to differences in various parts-here the differences are limited, and you can understand them, but you cannot rely upon the differences which are incident to the eye and hand of man. The machine is totally inapplicable to engraving in full relief, because in the full figure the relief is only given by shadows thrown from the projections; now as this machine cannot feel shadow, it can only represent substance by the form of its line, and therefore this machine, like all other machines, has its limits, and is applicable to medals more particularly than any thing else, and the flatter the medal the less will be the distortion, as it is called; it is not distortion, however, but a deviation of very little im ortance, more particularly when it is in the same proportion to the relief, and when you know that it is of no consequence whatever. Letter from Sir Francis Chantrey to the Chairman of the Committee. Belgrave-place, June 15, 1836. Sir,-Since I gave my evidence yesterday concerning engravings made from medals by a machine, I have conversed with Mr. Wyon, the Engraver to the Royal Mint, who informed me that there are several machines in this country which produce copies of medals in true proportions in all their parts. I beg leave to enclose an impression which he gave to me; it is from a plate engraved by Mr. Bate's machine. It appears to me that in this impression the " distortion," as it has been called, is entirely obviated. I understand that a similar machine is in possession of a person of the name of Lacy. In the enclosed print the effect of relief appears inferior to most of the engravings by the French machine, but that, I presume, may depend, in some degree, on the direction of the lines; in this instance they run obliquely, and had I been aware of this improvement in the machine, I should have stated it yesterday; perhaps you will think it important enough to add to my evidence. Yours, &c. F. CHANTREY. Mr. Vincent Nolte Is the founder of the company in Paris for engraving medals, &c. by M. Collas' machine. "The origin of this thing is, that M. Collas, a mechanic, who, when the revolution took place in 1830, found himself without any particular employment, remembered to have seen the outline of a machine in the Manuel des Tourneurs, and he contrived to make one upon different principles to produce the same effect. At the end of 1831 some specimens thus produced were so satisfactory to myself, and a number of artists with whom I was connected, that we thought it would be a good thing to make some publication, with engravings of that description; however, we did not embark in it without having tested the excellence of the proceeding, by consulting the very best authorities among men of science as to the faithfulness of the engravings, and among artists as to the effect; and those persons were, Mr. Horace Vernet, Mr. Le Normant, Mr. Tiolier, the engraver of the Royal Mint in Paris, and Mr. Barre; Henriquel Dupont, our first engraver, and Mr. Paul de la Roche, member of the Institute, were also consulted upon the subject. Their unanimous report was of that description, that we thought we could venture upon any thing: we commenced by saying 'I will advance so much money; you will supply some other sum,' and in that manner this company was organized and formed for the purpose of executing engravings of medals, coins, basso relievos, cameos, intaglios, and things of various kinds, of which, I have a variety of specimens. When the first specimens came out, we all calculated that on account of the pleasing nature of the work, the number of subscribers would be very great; but we found that we had no more than 180 to 200 subscribers, which was perfectly insufficient to defray the expenses of the establishment; we then thought of calling in aid from the Government of France, and having felt the pulse of the Minister of the Interior, he gave it his decided approba tion, and we then proceeded in the usual way by presenting a petition to Government, supported by such evidence as we thought useful to obtain the desired result. The Government upon that determined to give it its protection, by the King and the Royal Family subscribing for a certain number of copies and the libraries and other public institutions of that description did the same. The whole amount of copies thus taken by Government was about 350, and in value equivalent to the receipt of 17,000%. After the Government had subscribed, the encouragement became then very general; the public fell in with the views of the Government, and the celebrity of the undertaking has been spread a great deal throughout Europe. We have received from various parts of Europe where there are collections of medals, orders for the execution of plates, and that has led me to England, under the impression that encouragement of the same kind would be given in this country if some public work was undertaken. I was not aware at that time that the medallic history of England was a blank in literature, in fact, that none existed; and it is only since I have been in England that I have discovered that it would be desirable." Witness has consulted the principal publishers' houses in London, but all declined undertaking the work. Mr. Tilt has agreed to publish, provided the aid of Government can be obtained; his calculations are founded upon the sale of 2000 copies. Precise casts of the medals would be taken and sent to Paris, where they could be executed better than in London, from the engravings being superintended by artists appointed for that purpose. With respect to the comparative cost of engraving by machinery, and by the ordinary mode, the following instance may be mentioned. When the question was whether the machine could execute difficult medals, the celebrated Soane medal was sent over to Paris and engraved. "It appears that Sir John Soane had put the medal into the hands of a gentleman of the name of Bate, who has invented or perfected a machine somewhat similar as to the effect of it. With the result of this engraving he does not appear to have been exactly satisfied, for he employed Mr. Corbould, the painter, to make an outline of the Soane medal, which was afterwards engraved by Mr. Freebaírn, and Mr. Freebairn told me that the engraving was paid for to him-fortyfive guineas for the head and the other side of the medal. Now we should consider ourselves well paid by eight guineas." The time taken to execute engravings of two medals shown to witness [but not described in the Report of the Evidence], was from a day to a day and a half; but they made a great many unsuccessful attempts; sometimes two days to do it with great nicety. The adjustment of the machine is sufficiently accurate to apply it to taking patterns for the use of manufacturers from off damask silk-has a plate as a specimen of the kind. The plates will bear from 9000 to 10,000 impressions being taken from them without showing it in the least. William Wyon, Esq., Chief Engraver to the Mint. many years ago. The invention, I believe, "The observed by measuring the compasses; Is acquainted with several methods of engraving medals by machinery. first attempt of the kind was described in the Manuel de Tourneurs, published in France from the lobe of the ear the point of the nose most projecting in the outline, is nearly an eighth of an inch greater in the medal than in the engraving. Is not sufficiently acquainted with the French machine to explain accurately the cause of this distortion, but believes it arises thus :-the tracing point that moves over the medal itself moves in a straight line across it, while the cutting point, which is transferred to the copper, takes a curved direction, consequently there is an inequality between the two. In an engraving of the same medal also, executed by Mr. Bate's improved machine, not the slightest disproportion exists; it is quite accurate. Mr. Bate has the merit of having modified his machine, so as to obviate the distortion which characterised the engravings of the original machines. In comparing the large medal of Napoleon and Maria Louise, which was engraved in France, with one executed in England, the English medal is perfectly circular, but in the French there is a considerable disproportion; the hollow part of the rim of the right-hand side of the medal is considerably larger than it ought to be, somewhat narrower on the left-hand side. In the English it is perfectly concentric. Is not sure that, in consequence of increased accuracy in point of outline, there is any sacrifice of the effect of relief. In this case, unquestionably, the French have the superiority in the brilliancy of impression. In France there is a kind of Committee of Taste, to examine every work before it is put into the hands of the machine engraver; this Committee directs the way to throw the lights and shadows, and thus, by having the advantage of art conjointly with that of mechanism, a more brilliant and better effect is produced. The machine, in its present state, is capable of doing every thing that is re 1 quired, if properly directed by artists. Again, comparing the French engraving of the same medal with the medallion itself, by measuring the distance from the corner of the eye to the greatest projection of the frontal sinus, in the head of Napoleon, the space occupied will be found more than one-third smaller than in the original. On taking the same measurement from the medal copied by Mr. Bate's improved machine. it is quite accurate. Thinks that it would be a great stimulus to the art of medalling, if the collection of medals in the British Museum were engraved-the greatest possible benefit to the numismatic science and to the country at large. William Brockedon, Esq., F.R.S., &c. Has a knowledge of the different processes of engraving medals, cameos, and embossed surfaces by machinery-by the old machine and Bate's improved machine. "I have now before me a medal which has been cut in sections, in order to explain the difference between the old and the new processes; it is a French medal of Napoleon and Maria Louise. The earliest process with which I became acquainted was that we now term the old; that was four or five years since. Though I had not seen specimens, I know that a similar process had been employed at a much earlier period; for there is a French work called Manuel de Tourneur, of which a second edition appeared in 1816,-a process by which, in a rough way, embossed surfaces can be drawn or laid down upon plane sur. faces with the effect of relief. Mr. Babbage has referred to this work. I will now endea. vour to explain the old machine :- Having laid down the medal (A B, fig. 1) to be enFig. 1. Marie Louise medal; the pieces exhibit two sections across the medal, one is at right angles with the field at D, the other at an angle of 45° with it at E. I will at present speak of the right-angled section only. The tracer, as in D, fig. 1, in passing over in the direction of the section D, fig. 2, would trace in rising over the curved surface, from E to F, a similar curved line on the plate, but which curved line would not be represented on the plate as at E, but at G, as far 20 from it as each point touched by the tracer is above the base, and the error in the representation amounts to the whole of this difference. This error exists in all the old machines that I have seen, and must exist in all of which the productions exhibit this defect. These defective machines present, if the lines be horizontal, the appearance of the top of the head leaning towards the observer; thus if the line AB be traced across the medal, fig. 3, touching the top of Fig. 3. |