cisco today, where we are beginning to count the ballots or votes in a shop election on the Southern Pacific Railroad in which probably 10,000 employees are participating. In these elections since July 21, we have voted over 50,000 railroad employees of the different crafts and classes, all the way from train dispatchers, enginemen, switchmen, and so forth, and on down to track workers, dining-car cooks, waiters, and so forth. In order to conduct one of those elections, it is necessary for the mediator, first, to make an inspection of the pay rolls, to take the seniority list of the employees, and find out those who would be eligible to vote, and then to provide the rules governing the election. They must have the ballots printed, and provide for the selection of observers on each side, and so forth.

Mr. WOODRUM. How many mediators did you ask the Budget for? Mr. Cook. We asked the Budget for the same number we have in here, or three.

Mr. WOODRUM. In the $122,950, how much money is included for those three mediators?

Mr. Cook. There are three, at $5,475 each.

Mr. WOODRUM. You are figuring on using them full time?

Mr. Cook. Yes.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. That item is $16,425.

Mr. WOODRUM. Is it your judgment that they will be needed for full time, or that you will require three full-time men?

Mr. Cook. The Board talked it over and they determined that there would probably be in the next year or two the necessity of using them full time in order to try to keep up with the current work.

PAY AND EXPENSES OF ADDITIONAL MEDIATORS

Mr. WOODRUM. What is the pay of the mediators?

Mr. Cook. We have 1 mediator at $6,000, and 2 at $5,600. They are in the same grade, but 2 at the average. Then we have one man in the field on a per diem basis of $15 a day engaged in that work, and that would make $5,475 for the full year. We are asking for the new men on the same basis, so they may be used in that same work. Mr. WOODRUM. What other expense is estimated in here incidental to these mediators? Is there some additional travel expense? Mr. Cook. Nothing additional.

Mr. WOODRUM. Do they get travel expense?
Mr. Cook. Yes.

Mr. WOODRUM. How do you absorb that?

Mr. Cook. If we had the additional men, we feel that we might be able to so arrange the work for the men that there would not be so much travel as at present. If we could have a man at Chicago, one in New York, one at St. Louis, and at some other railroad centers, then they would be there to handle the cases as they accumulated, and we would not have to bring a man there from some other city. They could take up other cases without the necessity of incurring travel

expense.

Mr. WOODRUM. Do you have any clerical assistants set up for those mediators?

Mr. Cook. No; they carry typewriters with them.

Mr. WOODRUM. Then the salary is all that is involved here?

Mr. Cook. That is all; yes. We have had one man on for the past 7 or 8 years under the old Board. We used him for a year and a half, and then had him again for 6 months.

Mr. WOODRUM. Do you have somebody that you are using for that work during the current fiscal year?

Mr. Cook. Yes.

Mr. WOODRUM. Is he being used full time?

Mr. Cook. He has been since last April. He went on the former Board last April, and he has been used full time since then.

MEMBERSHIP OF OLD BOARD

Mr. WOODRUM. There were five members of the old Board.
Mr. Cook. Yes.

Mr. WOODRUM. At $10,000 each.

Mr. Cook. Yes. The law provided for five at $12,000, but that was changed under the economy act.

Mr. WOODRUM. So you saved $20,000 in the salaries of Board members, but you absorbed that in the pay of the two additional mediators and the other expenses. Where do you get any saving under the readjustment?

Mr. Cook. There is not much saving in that. There are additional mediators provided for 1936 as compared with 1935, which would take up most of the appropriation for salaries.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. You have estimated for three. Were there more than three last year?

Mr. Cook. Under that estimate you have the Budget requested that we put in the 1935 estimate what we expected to spend. This is the first year we have done that. In other years we have always shown what was actually set up for the year before.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Were more than three members provided for in 1935?

Mr. Cook. Yes; there were five members. That was the number for the fiscal year up to July 21.

SALARIES AND EXPENSES, NATIONAL MEDIATION BOARD

Mr. WOODRUM. Your item for salaries and expenses of the National Mediation Board is as follows:

For three members of the Board, and for other authorized expenditures of the National Mediation Board in performing the duties imposed by law, including personal services; contract stenographic reporting services; supplies and equipment; law books and books of reference; not to exceed $200 for newspapers; periodicals; traveling expenses; and rent of quarters outside the District of Columbia; $122,950, of which amount not to exceed $91,775 may be expended for personal services in the District of Columbia.

Your break-down shows the estimated salaries and expenses for the Board of Mediation, for the fiscal year 1936, to be $122,950, as against $124,764 appropriated for the fiscal year 1935.

Mr. Cooк. That is correct.

SALARIES AND EXPENSES OF ARBITRATION BOARDS

Mr. WOODRUM. The items for arbitration boards is as follows: Arbitration boards: To enable the National Mediation Board to pay necessary expenses of arbitration boards, including compensation of members and employees of such boards, together with their necessary traveling expenses and expenses actually incurred for subsistence while so employed, and printing of awards, together with proceedings and testimony relating thereto, as authorized by the Railway Labor Act, including also contract stenographic reporting service, and rent of quarters when suitable quarters cannot be supplied in any Federal building, $30,000, together with the unexpended balance of the appropriation available for this purpose for the fiscal year 1935.

For arbitration boards you are asking an additional amount of $30,000.

Mr. Cook. That is correct.

Mr. WOODRUM. And your statement shows that you have available from the 1935 appropriation the sum of $36,444.

Mr. Cook. That is correct.

Mr. WOODRUM. How much do you estimate will be used during the fiscal year 1935 for these arbitration boards?

Mr. Cook. It is rather difficult to estimate what will be used for 1935, in view of these new wage and rules disputes that are coming in. We have on our docket now a number of arbitration cases in which arbitration agreements have been filed, but in which arbitration proceedings have not yet been held. There are seven of those arbitration questions pending before the Board now.

Mr. WOODRUM. Is that the only appropriation you have for 1935, or did we make any direct appropriation for 1935?

Mr. Cook. No; you have made no direct appropriation for that purpose for several years. We started off originally with $80,000 that was appropriated for arbitration boards.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. That war for 1931?

Mr. Cook. Yes; and it has been reappropriated.

Mr. WOODRUM. And you now have $36,444 from that appropriation?

Mr. Cook. Yes.

Mr. WOODRUM. Why do you estimate that you will need more than that in the next fiscal year?

Mr. Cook. We have not anything at the present time except those seven arbitrations that are pending. The expense of an arbitration runs all the way from $1,000 to $9,000 or $10,000. One of the smallest cases we had on the Pacific coast, so far as the number of men involved was concerned, was our most costly arbitration, and it was also one that consumed the longest time. An arbitration that we finished last spring, involving some grievance cases at Houston, Tex., which the Board, as a guess at the length of time it would consume, would probably estimate not over 2 or 3 weeks, actually consumed 87 days. It required 87 days to dispose of the question. That is something that is entirely beyond the control of the Boardthat is, the length of the arbitration proceedings.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. How much expense did you have under this item during the last fiscal year?

Mr. WOODRUM. Give it for 1934.

Mr. Cook. It was $23,807.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. What is your estimate for the current fiscal year?

Mr. Cook. It is difficult to tell how much of that $36,000 that we have on hand will be expended. If we do not have any more cases involving arbitration than we have on file with us at the present time, we might not need it all, but within the next 6 months we might get seven or eight more cases, or, perhaps, a dozen more cases. We cannot tell anything about it. We are subject now to more arbitration cases than we were before, following these representation

cases.

Mr. WOODRUM. Do you have any figures showing how much you used for that purpose in the fiscal year 1935?

Mr. Cook. Yes.

Mr. WOODRUM. What is that?

Mr. Cook. We have not spent anything so far. For 1934 we used $23,000. Since June we have had no arbitrations. We have seven cases pending now in which the employees and the carriers have not yet selected their arbitrators.

Mr. WOODRUM. It has been running about $20,000 or $25,000 a year, has it not?

Mr. Cook. Yes; it has been averaging that.

Mr. WOODRUM. Is there any reason why you should require more than that for the next fiscal year?

Mr. Cook. We believe it will be more than that.

Mr. WOODRUM. Do you have anything tangible on which to base that estimate? We do not like to appropriate blindly.

Mr. Cook. There might be some risk in connection with these representation cases that we have had where, for instance, a new organization has come in to represent the employees who may have been represented for some 10 or 15 years by another organization. New agreements might have to be made, or agreements might be changed. Then a request is made for a conference with the carriers to discuss the proposed changes. There may be changes requested in the rules and working conditions, and if they do not agree it will come up for mediation. If it is not disposed of in mediation, the case is the subject of arbitration. We think we will probably have more questions involving changes in agreements and in the making of new agreements in the future than we have had in the past several years, following the settlement of these representation questions.

SALARIES AND EXPENSES OF EMERGENCY BOARDS

Mr. WOODRUM. The item for "Emergency boards" is as follows: Emergency boards: For expenses of emergency boards appointed by the President to investigate and report respecting disputes between carriers and their employees, as authorized by section 10, Railway Labor Act, approved May 20, 1926 (U. S. C., Supp. VII, title 45, sec. 154), $25,000, together with the unexpended balance of the appropriation available for this purpose for the fiscal year 1935.

It appears that you have $64,000 available for emergency boards: How much have you used so far in 1935 for emergency boards, and why do you ask this additional $25,000?

Mr. Cook. We originally started out with $50,000, I think it was, for emergency boards. The Board felt that it wanted to have

enough in that fund to give protection to the public in case of any disputes that arose that would necessitate the appointment of emergency boards. In the year 1935 there were more emergency boards appointed, or as many appointed in that year, as there had been in 7 years before.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. What was the expenditure under that item for the fiscal year 1934?

Mr. Cook. $20,859.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. That is about what it has run each year.

Mr. Cook. It has not averaged that much. In the first year, we had one board. That was in 1927. The expense was not very great. It has fluctuated. I do not think it has been as great in any year as it was in 1934, or in any single year.

PRINTING AND BINDING

Mr. WOODRUM. For all printing and binding for the National Mediation Board, your estimate for 1936 is $2,500, as against $800 appropriated for 1935. You expended for this purpose $903 in 1934. What is the explanation of that increase?

Mr. Cook. A part of that covers the printing of the annual report, which will include the report of the Adjustment Board. Another item was for printing the election notices in connection with these elections. In the past 6 months we have not had any money to do that printing, and the organizations of the employees that have had representation cases before the Board have agreed to take care of that expense. Now, we feel that it is an expense which should be properly paid by our Board.

SALARIES OF STAFF

Mr. WOODRUM. I notice in the item for "Salaries of the staff ", jump from $60,900 in 1935 to $72,725 in 1936.

, you

Mr. Cook. There was a request for additional mediators. Mr. WOODRUM. What happened to the $20,000 you saved on the salaries of the Board members? That should more than offset the increase. You have a net increase here of 12 or 15 thousand dollars on account of your staff. Did you not have 5 Board members appropriated for in 1935, as compared with 3 provided for in 1936?

Mr. Cook. Yes. The Budget requested that we set that up in 1935 with reference to the three members in that way. That may have been due to the fact that the law changed when the new members took office in this fiscal year, in July. There were 5 members employed up to July 21, and there have been 3 on the Board since that time.

Mr. WOODRUM. You have had three Board members practically all of this fiscal year?

Mr. Cook. Yes. For 1935, salaries were provided for five members of the Board.

Mr. WOODRUM. You ought to have $20,000 left over on account of the Board salaries as compared with 1935. It should be $20,000 less for 1936.

Mr. Cook. That would be so if it were set up in the way you made the appropriation for 1935 for 5 members, at $10,000 each, and then the balance for the staff of 19 would make a total of $126,200.