the rather evasive and rambling testimony, I could not find one regulation that had been issued at that time setting forth the duties of licensed Federal firearms dealers.

Returning to the complaint about the Nation being deluged with foreign castoff military equipment, I would remind the Committee that Section 414 of the Mutual Security Act of 1954 affords the Federal Government broad regulatory authority over imports of weapons and munitions of war. Why are these powers not being used and regulations issued within the framework of law to attack abuses? Why can't these powers be used to halt the importation of surplus rifles, pistols, cannons anti-tank guns, mines, mortars and bombs? Perhaps like the fabled farmer who asked the County agent to not bother him with new techniques, the Departments pushing this legislation "ain't farming as well as they know how, right now!"

Certainly this Committee owes it to its colleagues to ascertain the facts on these matters before insisting on destruction of the mail order firearms industry, and asking such vast regulatory powers.

H.R. 5384 WOULD NOT HAVE PREVENTED THE ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT KENNEDY Even had H.R. 5384 been in effect on the tragic day in November 1963 when our beloved President was brutally slain, John Fitzgerald Kennedy could have been killed by the same man with an identical or superior firearm at the same time and place. Such weapon could have been purchased over the counter, borrowed or purchased from an acquaintance, stolen, inherited, brought into the country as a war trophy, or procured in a police auction.

H.R. 5384 WOULD DISARM LAW-ABIDING CITIZENS AND GIVE ADVANTAGE TO THE

CRIMINALS

While this legislation grossly inconveniences the law-abiding citizen, it does not disturb the criminal a bit. With this legislation on the books, and God forbid that this happen, criminals will continue to secure the weaponry of their needs. They have abundant sources. Theft from government arsenals and from the police provided ample automatic weapons to the gangsters of the 20's and 30's.

Our society is threatened not by the weaponry of crime, but by crime itself. The statistical information I presented above proves this.

Other proof you see before you, gentlemen. Weapons confiscated from criminals of the District of Columbia by the excellent Metropolitan Police Force, were made available to me to show the type weapons not covered in this legislation, which will still be available to the criminal to smite the law-abiding citizen.

Look at them-billies, slingshots, knives, zip guns, clubs, cudgels, razors, axes and brass knuckles, all deadly. We must secure control of crime, gentlemen, and not waste time on ineffective and unworkable legislation which would only disarm the law-abiding citizen.

THE SPORTSMAN, HUNTER, FIREARMS COLLECTOR, AND ORDINARY CITIZEN WOULD BE DENIED FIREARMS FOR LEGITIMATE PURPOSES

The President has indicated, in the message presenting this abomination to the Congress, that he wishes this bill accompanied by a "Sullivan Act" in every state. There is reason to believe that if states, under blandishments or pressure, do not adopt such laws within a reasonable time after this legislation is enacted. a Federal "Sullivan Act" will be forced upon us. One hears of attempts on the part of certain Federal bureaucrats to have uniform Federal registration of all firearms. Such legislation is already pending before the Congress, applicable to the District of Columbia, to compel a citizen to prove that he requires a pistol or revolver to protect himself before he can acquire one.

The President's Commission on crime has recommended registration of all firearms, including shotguns, rifles, and pistols, in the Country. The Commission also recommended that where states, in five years, have not enacted a registration law dealing with such firearms, the Federal Government shall do so.

And, so we see the forces at play here. They include the concerted effort to achieve this legislation, as a "first step" in the words of one of the proponents in the other Body. The very ineffectiveness of each step will be invitation to newer and more repressive actions to further disarm and harass the law-abiding citizen, while the criminal goes on his way, armed, capable of striking at the time, place and in the manner he finds best against his governmentally disarmed victim.

Gentlemen, we can legislate until kingdom come against firearms; we can strip the law-abiding citizen of every sort of weapon he may use for sport and defense; we can place him naked and quivering, under the doubtful protection of an overworked, underpaid and numerically too small constabulary, presently incapable of coping with the forces of crime; but we will not stop crime, nor deter criminals from their evil ways. What we will accomplish by this legislation, and its programmed successor legislation, is destruction of something very precious in our heritage-the weakening of the self-reliance of Americans, and the sapping of our national vigor and defensive capabilities as free men living in a dangerous, troubled and predatory world.

If the proffered legislation presented reasonable restrictions on the use of firearms in coming to grips with the core of the crime problem, I would, like every other responsible citizen, support it.

I have, in fact, introduced several bills aimed at a reasonable approach. These bills would sternly control the possession and transportation of destructive devices, cannons, mortars, bombs, mines and bazookas.

I have sponsored legislation making it a Federal crime to transport or receive in interstate commerce, with intent to commit a felony, a firearm or other lethal weapon.

These are legislative proposals which would help control crime. They will have citizen support. They can be enacted into law.

(The exchange of correspondence in regard to H.R. 5384, between Mr. Celler and Mr. Dingell follows:)

Hon. JOHN D. DINGELL,

House of Representatives
Washington, D.C.

APRIL 17, 1967.

DEAR JOHN: Be sure that your letter of April 4, 1967 will be inserted in the record of the hearings on H. R. 5384.

There is no reason why you are not qualified to seek from the Small Business Administration and from other sources the information you deem necessary to strengthen your testimony. When you have received such material, I shall be very pleased to make it a part of the record.

Sincerely yours,

EMANUEL CELLER, Chairman.

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,

Washington, D.C., April 4, 1967.

Hon. EMANUEL CELLER,

Chairman, Committee on the Judiciary

House of Representatives

Washington, D.C.

DEAR MR. CHAIRMAN: I am writing this letter with respect to your consideration of H. R. 5384. It is requested that this letter be made a part of the record of the Committee hearings on the bill.

As you know, small businessmen play an unusually important role in the distribution of guns. Indeed the most common retail outlet for guns is the small business gun dealer or sporting goods store.

Part of the Committee's determination of the probable effect of H. R. 5384, if enacted, should be a finding as to the effect of the proposed legislation on small business. It would appear most probable that large numbers of them will suffer severe economic damage even to the point of being driven out of business. It will be most appreciated if you will direct the members of your staff to secure from the Small Business Administration or such other sources as they deem appropriate an estimate as to the number of small businesses that will be eliminated by this legislation, together with an estimate of the total economic damage suffered by all small businesses dealing in this commodity. Sincerely,

JOHN D. DINGELL.

Chairman CELLER. The Chair wishes to announce that we have seven. more witnesses. Some of them have come from different parts of the country, and it would be unfair to hold them over until tomorrow, and I would ask the committee to not ask many questions, or we will

not be able to finish with all these witnesses, and we have an equal number tomorrow.

Our next witness is our very distinguished colleague from Texas, the Honorable Bob Casey. We will be glad to hear from you.

STATEMENT OF HON. BOB CASEY, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF TEXAS

Mr. CASEY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Chairman, and distinguished members of this subcommittee, I am here today because I share with you a deep concern over our national disgrace an ever-increasing crime rate. But I say to you with all due respect: if-as a ranking official stated last week-the Department of Justice has the identity of 5,000 members of the Cosa Nostra. If, as he stated, there is known to be a high-level amalgamation between this vicious crime syndicate and two powerful trade unions;

If, as Chief Justice Earl Warren stated to the same National Conference on Crime Control-corruption in Government and business is perpetuating organized crime controlled by the same money and the same underworld power of prohibition days, then I cannot help but feel that in sitting here testifying on this rather minor crime control legislation, I, this distinguished subcommittee, and the whole Congress have been put in the ridiculous position of swatting at gnats while elephants ravage the countryside.

I find few, if any, provisions in H.R. 5037 and H.R. 5384 before this committee which will effectively curb crime. And most assuredly, I find nothing that strikes at the vast underworld organization known as the Mafia, the Cosa Nostra, or the Syndicate.

I do find, however, provisions in H.R. 5384 which concern me gravely. For these provisions so ardently advocated by the Justice Department do little but pile additional restrictions on millions of decent, law-abiding citizens who purchase, possess, use, trade, and repair firearms and ammunition in compliance with all laws and regulations. And the net effect will be to make it exceedingly difficult for these decent people to obtain and use firearms-while the Justice Department largely ignores the criminal who uses guns to rob, rape, murder, and

assault.

That we have a problem cannot be denied.

But it is a problem caused by the failure of the Department of Justice and the Treasury Department to vigorously enforce existing provisions of the National Firearms Act and the Federal Firearms Act.

The problem is caused by the failure of the Department of State to regulate the importation of surplus firearms and heavy weapons and destructive devices under the ample authority granted it to do so by Congress in the 1954 Mutual Security Act. That is section 414.

The problem is the failure of the Secretary of the Treasury to enact forceful and rigid regulations to carry out provisions of the Federal Firearms Act under authority granted him by Congress in section 907. The problem is caused by lax prosecutors, lenient judges, and fainthearted probation officers who repeatedly turn loose the hardened criminal to continue preying on society.

For the problem, gentlemen, is crime and the criminal. It is particularly the repeat offender who uses firearms to rob, rape, assault, and

murder. And I, for one, am getting just a bit tired of this Congress being made the whipping boy for failure of these Departments to act under the ample authority granted in existing law. Surely, it should be obvious that the constant cry that present laws are ineffective serves but one purpose-focuses the spotlight of public attention away from the Department's own failures and shortcomings in enforcing existing law.

We are being asked to legislate without facts. We are being asked to enact rigid restrictions on millions of decent Americans without full knowledge of the cause and the source of the problem.

I say to the Attorney General-tell this Congress how many cases have been brought under section 901 where it is illegal for a felon to transport or receive firearms or ammunition that moved in interstate commerce? How many machinegun and sawed-off shotgun bandits have been prosecuted for violation of the National Firearms Act?

I say to the Secretary of the Treasury and the Internal Revenue Service-how many prosecutions have been made under Internal Revenue Code against armed robbers for failure to declare, pay, or other evasion of income taxes?

I say to the law enforcement officers of this Nation-how vigorous is your enforcement of local and State laws on possession and use of firearms by the criminal?

And I say to our own great Federal Bureau of Investigation—give this Congress and the American people the facts on criminal use of firearms. Tell us how and where the criminal gets his weapon. Is it stolen? Does he buy it under the counter in a roadside gin mill? Or from a hockshop? Or by mail order? Tell this Congress how many of the 5,634 homicides during 1965 were crimes of passion-where any weapon at hand could have been used-and how many were coldblooded murders? We cannot enact fair, equitable, and effective legislation without these facts, for I am convinced that our problem is the criminal.

And I frankly see no provision in H.R. 5384 which will stop him. This Congress needs facts-not opinions.

We need factual information on how effective, and how strong a deterrent to crime, are stiff, mandatory penalties. Let me cite but two examples:

Armed robbery of post offices, which hold large sums of money and are generally unguarded, carries a mandatory 25-year Federal sentence. There were but 66 such robberies last year.

Armed robbery of a bank carries a lighter sentence-from suspension to a maximum of 25 years, depending upon the leniency of the judge. There were 1,070 bank robberies this last year.

But the severeness of the penalties is reversed on burglaries. Burglarizing a post office carries a light penalty of up to 5 years, plus a fine of up to $1,000.

Burglarizing a bank carries a stiffer penalty of up to 20 years, and a fine of up to $5,000.

It is obvious the criminals know-and avoid-crimes with stiff penalties. Last year, they burglarized 1,763 post offices and only 467 banks.

I tried to obtain detailed statistical information showing the criminal use of firearms for three major crimes of violence within each State.

not be able to finish with all these witnesses, and we have an equal number tomorrow.

Our next witness is our very distinguished colleague from Texas, the Honorable Bob Casey. We will be glad to hear from you.

STATEMENT OF HON. BOB CASEY, A REPRESENTATIVE IN
CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF TEXAS

Mr. CASEY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Chairman, and distinguished members of this subcommittee, I am here today because I share with you a deep concern over our national disgrace an ever-increasing crime rate. But I say to you with all due respect: if-as a ranking official stated last week-the Department of Justice has the identity of 5,000 members of the Cosa Nostra. If, as he stated, there is known to be a high-level amalgamation between this vicious crime syndicate and two powerful trade unions;

If, as Chief Justice Earl Warren stated to the same National Conference on Crime Control-corruption in Government and business is perpetuating organized crime controlled by the same money and the same underworld power of prohibition days, then I cannot help but feel that in sitting here testifying on this rather minor crime control legislation, I, this distinguished subcommittee, and the whole Congress have been put in the ridiculous position of swatting at gnats while elephants ravage the countryside.

I find few, if any, provisions in H.R. 5037 and H.R. 5384 before this committee which will effectively curb crime. And most assuredly, I find nothing that strikes at the vast underworld organization known as the Mafia, the Cosa Nostra, or the Syndicate.

I do find, however, provisions in H.R. 5384 which concern me gravely. For these provisions so ardently advocated by the Justice Department do little but pile additional restrictions on millions of decent, law-abiding citizens who purchase, possess, use, trade, and repair firearms and ammunition in compliance with all laws and regulations. And the net effect will be to make it exceedingly difficult for these decent people to obtain and use firearms-while the Justice Department largely ignores the criminal who uses guns to rob, rape, murder, and assault.

That we have a problem cannot be denied.

But it is a problem caused by the failure of the Department of Justice and the Treasury Department to vigorously enforce existing provisions of the National Firearms Act and the Federal Firearms Act.

The problem is caused by the failure of the Department of State to regulate the importation of surplus firearms and heavy weapons and destructive devices under the ample authority granted it to do so by Congress in the 1954 Mutual Security Act. That is section 414.

The problem is the failure of the Secretary of the Treasury to enact forceful and rigid regulations to carry out provisions of the Federal Firearms Act under authority granted him by Congress in section 907. The problem is caused by lax prosecutors, lenient judges, and fainthearted probation officers who repeatedly turn loose the hardened criminal to continue preying on society.

For the problem, gentlemen, is crime and the criminal. It is particularly the repeat offender who uses firearms to rob, rape, assault, and