Dr. MCLELLAND. They are funding the program for the Amsoc Committee. It is their program and their idea, their concept, and their course of action which they see is a great scientific adventure to gain knowledge, both for science and for engineering. It is their program. Mr. CASEY. I agree with you as to the purpose of Amsoc but I presume it was to stimulate governmental agencies and private industries and private research groups into further scientific explorations in all fields. Is that not what the Committee is supposed to do and act in an advisory capacity? As far as this program being run for the benefit of Amsoc, I disagree. In other words, Amsoc and the members of the Committee, have stated repeatedly here they are only an advisory committee. True, this brainchild had its birth with these 20 scientists sitting around discussing the benefits that might be derived from this great pioneering project in science of exploring the earth's crust, but as far as its being operated purely and solely for the benefit of Amsoc, I dis agree. Dr. MCLELLAND. Let us say that Amsoc initiated Moho. They carried out the first phase of the Mohole project. Mr. CASEY. They would take the first phase? Dr. MCLELLAND. Right; and it was decided by the Board of the National Academy of Sciences that the project should not be operational under the National Academy of Sciences. I think all that is being said here is that you separate the child from the mother. Mr. CASEY. I do not want to low rate these brilliant men of Amsoc, but I would point out to the gentleman that they are not the only scientists in this country and they do not have a corner on the brains in this country. They have a good share of them, mind you. Dr. MCLELLAND. Let us say they have a corner on the brains of the group of people who are interested in doing this project. Mr. CASEY. The Committee changes month to month? Dr. MCLELLAND. No, it does not change month to month. Dr. MCLELLAND. That is the difference, a very significant difference. Mr. CASEY. It has changed from 1957 when this idea was first born? Dr. MCLELLAND. In 1957, there were 13 members of the original Committee and today 12 of those 13 members are still on that Committee. The Committee has expanded now to 19 people. That is not a month-to-month change. Mr. CASEY. I agree, and I would accept that, but by the same token you can probably find 20 other scientists who are topnotch in their field. I disagree with you. Dr. MCLELLAND. If we are going out and finding 20 other scientists interested in this project, I assure you there are probably 20,000 that would enjoy the privilege of being on the Committee. The Committee is limited to 20 members. Mr. CASEY. When you were using the word "political" you were using it in a broad sense, I presume as to what it takes in the way of heroism. Whichever way they go, they are going to get rocks thrown at them, are they not? Dr. MCLELLAND. I do not know that people are going to throw rocks at someone Mr. CASEY. I mean they will have criticism if they go the route of the recommendation. Somebody is going to criticize them? Dr. MCLELLAND. Let us say no decision has been made to date. Mr. CASEY. That is right. Dr. MCLELLAND. There is criticism of them now and that is why we are here. Mr. CASEY. That is why you are here? Dr. MCLELLAND. I think we are all gathered here today to try to resolve what the problem is and what the course of action ought to be. I think it would be helpful to the National Science Foundation and to the Amsoc Committee, and so forth, that the facts are made known on which decisions can be based. Mr. CASEY. The final decision rests with the NSF, does it not? Dr. MCLELLAND. That is right. I hope they will make a very wise decision. Mr. CASEY. The NSF does not exist and operate this program solely for the benefit of Amsoc? Dr. MCLELLAND. Well, the Science Foundation is a granting organization in which people make proposals of scientific work and other projects they would like to do. The Science Foundation grants them funds to carry out their projects. Mr. CASEY. In this instance, this grant is not to Amsoc? Mr. MCLELLAND. No. Mr. CASEY. The original one was? Mr. MCLELLAND. Amsoc took a secondary role in this case because of the relationships of the National Academy of Sciences Board of Directors. Mr. CASEY. I am glad you finally admit the secondary role and not the primary role, but it is a very important role, I assure you. I agree with you. Mr. LENNON. Any other questions? (No response.). If not, the committee will stand adjourned until tomorrow morning at 10 o'clock. (Dr. McLelland's supplemental statement follows:) SUPPLEMENTAL STATEMENT BY DR. JACK I. MCLELLAND During yesterday's testimony before this committee I was asked by Congressman Rogers questions concerning our company's activities during our contractual period with Brown & Root, Inc. These questions related to whether the sole purpose of our consulting with Brown & Root was to pass on to them the information which we prepared for the NAS-NRC Publication No. 984. I would like to amplify on that series of questions and answers. Brown & Root's letter contract with Ocean Science & Engineering, Inc. called for us (and I quote) “* * * to furnish professional consultants in connection with our project for the Mohole for the National Science Foundation." The individuals named were to be (and again I quote) “*** devoted to work at our request." During the initial 2 or 3 days of this contractual period, we discussed thoroughly with Brown & Root all of the information and conceptual ideas which were set forth in the galley proofs of NAS-NRC Publication 984. These galley proofs were given to them. Considerable discussion took place to develop the background of this report and the many and varied studies and conclusions that led to the published document. As mentioned, only the first 2 or 3 days were devoted to this activity, i.e., the discussion of 984. I emphasized this aspect yesterday to show that the prime contractor had been made aware (at the earliest possible time) of the intermediate route that the Amsoc Committee was desirous of following. After this, our group split up to work individually with the various engineers charged with component parts of the overall study. During the remainder of our stay in Houston, each of our men contributed, as best he could, not only his past experience gained under phase I but also any ideas that could be of value to the project whether they had occurred before, during, or after the publication of 984. This document, "Design of a Deep Ocean Drilling Ship," contained many engineering ideas which are being used by the prime contractor: automatic pipe racking system, double upset tool joints to replace slips, split traveling block for wireline coring, vertical motions compensation of logging instruments, the method of calculating drill string stresses by the use of ship response spectra and wave amplitude spectrum, etc. Thus, throughout our entire contractual period, publication 984 was used as the center around which the initial and subsequent discussions took place. I have also been asked to include in the record the dollar amounts of our contracts with Brown & Root and the National Science Foundation. Our remunderation from Brown & Root amounted to $24,163.04 covering four men for 43 days. Our contract with the National Science Foundation originally called for a cost of $178,000 and a fixed fee of $5,000 for a total of $183,000. This was to be for 1 year's work. As finally concluded-at the end of 10 months-Ocean Science & Engineering was reimbursed $130,377.68 in costs plus a fee of $3,650.58 for a total of $134,028.26. I would like to express my appreciation to the committee for affording me the opportunity to place this clarification and additional data before them. (Whereupon, at 12:05 p.m., the subcommittee adjourned to reconvene at 10 a.m., Thursday, October 31, 1963.) MOHOLE PROJECT THURSDAY, OCTOBER 31, 1963 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, SUBCOMMITTEE ON OCEANOGRAPHY OF THE COMMITTEE ON MERCHANT MARINE AND FISHERIES, Washington, D.C. The subcommittee met, pursuant to recess, at 10 a.m., in room 219, Cannon House Office Building, Hon. Alton Lennon (chairman of the subcommittee) presiding. Mr. LENNON. The committee will come to order. We have with us this morning as our first witness, and I believe the only witness scheduled for the day, Dr. William H. Tonking, representing Brown & Root. Doctor, will you come around, please? Have you any associates you would like to have sit at the table with you? STATEMENT OF DR. WILLIAM H. TONKING, DEPUTY PROJECT MANAGER, BROWN & ROOT, INC. Dr. TONKING. Yes, please. Mr. LENNON. I would be delighted if you would identify yourself, Doctor, and those whom you may from time to time wish to assist you in your testimony. Dr. TONKING. I believe all these gentlemen have already been introduced to the recorder. Brown & Root, Inc., witnesses: Michael V. Kelly, project manager. J. N. Biron, chief engineer. Alan C. McClure, chief naval architect. W. P. Schneider, chief, electronics measurements department. Jack Buscher, Washington representative. Consultants to Brown & Root, Inc.: Dr. Robert M. Mains, General Electric Co., consultant on stress analysis and computer program. Dr. Manley St. Denis, consultant on wave motion. Bob Taggart, consultant on ship propulsion. Dr. H. K. Beckmann, Rice Institute, consultant on hydrodynamics. Mr. LENNON. If for any reason, Doctor, you refer any question to any one of the gentlemen who is associated with you at the witness table, they will identify themselves to us before they make any statement, if that is satisfactory to you gentlemen. Doctor, you may proceed. 25-984-63- -8 |