is 289.9 million dollars, you get a gross requirement of 847.6 million dollars.

On page 1, Mr. Phillips, in the middle column, we show the availability for 1951 as it passed the House. There we have the appropriation as it was passed by the House plus a 53.7-million-dollar unobligated balance, which results from savings we made in the fiscal year 1950. That gives us a total availability, if the appropriation is approved as it was passed by the House, of 587.6 million dollars. If you subtract that, on page 7, from our gross requirement of $847,000,000, you get $260,000,000.

The difficulty may be, Mr. Phillips, in the foreshortened explanation we had, that we are asking for items that are not only in this new project, but then we have the odds and ends as summarized at the top of page 7.

Mr. PHILLIPS. I shall have to look this over. I strongly suspected at first that you were getting back $5,000,000 that we had taken off the regular budget.

Mr. SHUGG. We show on page 1 in the middle column the availability figures exactly as you passed them. The only surprise to you is that 53.7 million dollars, which is the presently estimated unobligated balance for the fiscal year 1950.

Mr. THOMAS. Most construction projects have gone up in cost anywhere from 3 to 5 percent, have they not?

Mr. PHILLIPS. What surprised me was that you got this work done for less than the estimates.

Mr. SHUGG. What you must realize is that we have to do a large part of the financing of new projects that have come up out of savings we have made. This 53.7 million dollars unobligated balance has about 40.2 million dollars from savings in operating costs for the fiscal year 1950. The estimates, as you point out, have been somewhat higher in some cases and they have been lower in some other cases than the final costs. But I should like to submit, in justification, that we are in an unknown field and having to do with a brand new facility, in which case you are liable to have changes both ways. think the record of savings that we have shown here is good. If you remember, we were able to finance a good part of our previous supplemental and we are turning in an appreciable portion of the financing of this supplemental, also.

I

Mr. PHILLIPS. You do well, Mr. Shugg, if we can keep you out of cafeterias and building roads.

Mr. SHUGG. The record shows that AEC has not yet sponsored a new town.

Mr. GORE. Gentlemen, the committee is impressed and pleased with your diligence and enthusiasm and efficiency. We thank you. Mr. DEAN. Thank you, sir.

FRIDAY, JULY 14, 1950.

NATIONAL SCIENCE FOUNDATION

WITNESSES

ELMER B. STAATS, ASSISTANT DIRECTOR

FREDERICK C. SCHULDT, BUREAU OF THE BUDGET

ESTIMATE FOR FISCAL YEAR 1951

Mr. THOMAS. We have this morning our friends, Mr. Staats and Mr. Schuldt of the Bureau of the Budget. It is a pleasure to have both of you gentlemen with us. We have an item before the committee for the National Science Foundation, in the amount of $475,000, as contained in House Document No. 640. Will you give us a brief statement on this, Mr. Staats?

GENERAL STATEMENT

Mr. STAATS. Mr. Chairman, I am appearing to support an estimate of $475,000 to begin the organization of the National Science Foundation, which became law on May 10; since that date the President's office has been in the process of developing a panel of names for a 24-man Board which I think you can appreciate is a rather difficult job in terms of the number of fields of scientific activity represented in this bill. But they are making progress on that and, I think, will be in a position to move forward on it when funds are available to provide for the initial expenditures which will be required.

The Bureau is appearing on this item because this agency has not been organized as yet, and we are appearing here on this item in the say way as we have appeared in the past as to other agencies that had not as yet been organized.

At this point I should like to insert a brief statement into the record. (The statement is as follows:)

The legislation to establish a National Science Foundation became law on May 10, 1950. Four hundred and seventy-five thousand dollars is requested for fiscal year 1951 to enable the Foundation to establish its organization and to formulate plans for a program of scientific research and training. This amount will not provide funds for the actual initiation of such a program, however.

The legislation establishing the National Science Foundation has been under consideration by the Congress since 1945, and the importance of the new agency's work has been emphasized by the President, by successive reports of congressional committees endorsing the enabling legislation, by national defense officials, and by the Nation's leading scientific authorities. The President has pointed out that our continued leadership in scientific achievement is becoming increasingly dependent upon intensified efforts in basic scientific research, which is essential for advances in applied research and development. The National Science Foundation Act of 1950 specifically recognizes this need and provides machinery for achieving this objective.

The legislation creating the foundation provides for a 24-member part-time, policy formulating National Science Board and a full-time Director who exercises executive responsibilities. All of these officials are expected to be appointed by the President in the near future. The legislation also authorizes the formation of special commissions to make comprehensive surveys of research in particular fields as deemed necessary by the foundation.

The principal responsibilities and functions of the foundation are (a) to develop and encourage the pursuit of a national policy for the promotion of basic research and education in the sciences, (b) to evaluate scientific research programs of the

agencies of the Federal Government, (c) to initiate and support basic scientific research in the sciences through contracts and grants-in-aid, (d) to award scholarships and graduate fellowships in the sciences, and (e) to maintain a register of scientific and technical personnel in the United States. The act establishes an appropriation ceiling of $500,000 for 1951 and $15,000,000 thereafter.

It is anticipated that the foundation's principal activity in fiscal year 1951 will be the examination of the existing needs with respect to the support for basic scientific research in this country and the formulation of plans for a program of research and training in the sciences. It is expected that this activity will be carried on almost entirely in the city of Washington, avoiding the necessity for a field organization.

Should the foundation find it feasible and necessary in fiscal year 1951 to begin to award research contracts and scholarships or fellowships, it is believed that temporary support for a limited program would be available through funds transferred from existing appropriations of other executive departments and agencies, as authorized by section 14 (h) of the act, which provides that Government agencies having funds for scientific or technical research may transfer such funds to the foundation for such use as is consistent with the purposes for which the funds were provided. It is expected that no direct appropriation to the foundation for the conduct of research and training will be requested for this fiscal year.

The proposed appropriation language provides for minimum operating requirements necessary to the establishment of the foundation. In view of the fact that the foundation will have relationships with a large number of other Government executive departments and agencies, provision has been made for the purchase of a single passenger motor vehicle.

It is believed that the continuing studies by the foundation will lead to better planning, scheduling, and coverage of scientific research in the Federal Government, with resulting economies in the use of skilled manpower and funds in future years.

LIMITATION ON EXPENDITURES

Mr. THOMAS. May I interrupt a moment, Mr. Staats? I think the authorization calls for an expenditure of $500,000 the first year; that is, the fiscal year 1951. Thereafter it may go up to $15,000,000 a year, is that correct?

Mr. STAATS. That is an appropriation ceiling.

Mr. THOMAS. Looking over the justifications last night I find that it was contemplated that during the fiscal year 1951 you would gradually build up to about 100 employees; is that right?

Mr. STAATS. That is contemplated in this estimate. It is a little difficult, obviously, in the absence of an organization

Mr. THOMAS. I understand that that is purely a guess at this time.

JUSTIFICATION OF THE ESTIMATES

We shall insert in the record at this point pages 4, 5, and 6 of the justifications.

(The information is as follows:)

OBLIGATIONS BY OBJECTS

Until such time as the foundation establishes its organization and formulates its program, no estimate can be made of the foundation's long-range administrative budget. It is believed, however, that the present request is very conservative and represents the minimum necessary to carry the foundation through fiscal year 1951. The budget estimate of $475,000 for 1951 will provide for a limited staff for the foundation, including the secretariat of the Interdepartmental Committee on Scientific Research and Development. The following table summarizes estimated obligations by objects:

01 Personal services__

100 full-time employees at $5,000, $500,000 lapsed 55 per

$275,000

(225, 000) (50, 000) 50, 000

04

Communications_

5, 000

The estimate provides for a small full-time staff and for compensation of the part-time officials prescribed in the act. Recruitment of a full-time staff will be required to establish the foundation as a going concern and to conduct essential staff studies in connection with the formulation of a program. The estimate assumes that recruitment will begin in September and that the staff will be built up gradually during the year, reaching levels of about 50 on January 1, 1951; about 70 on April 1, 1951; and about 100 by July 1, 1951. It is believed that the four statutory program divisions would require altogether about 60 or 70 positions by the end of the fiscal year, with the remaining 30 or 40 positions necessary for the executive, legal, fiscal, and other administrative functions, including the provision of clerical assistance for the Board. The fact that about 45 percent of the staff will be professional personnel at the "senior" and "intermediate" levels accounts for an average salary figure for the foundation which is somewhat higher than that required for Federal agencies whose operations involve a greater proportion of routine work.

It is probable that the part-time officials provided for in the act, including the members of the Board, the various divisional committees and such special commissions as may be established, will perform much of the review of existing programs and the program planning, particularly in its initial stages. The personal services estimate, therefore, includes funds for 2,000 man-days of such part-time employment at the rate specified in the act of $25 per day. This estimate would provide, for example, for six Board meetings and six Executive Committee meetings of 7 days each (including travel time), and six meetings of each of four divisional committees of 5 days each (including travel time).

OTHER OBJECTS

The remainder of the estimate is largely for travel, rent, contractual services and equipment. Since the part-time officials are to be drawn from various sectors of the United States, considerable travel expenditures are to be expected. Estimated costs are based on the estimate, set forth above, of the number of meetings of part-time officials which will be necessary. With respect to the estimate for rent, it is expected that the Public Buildings Service will have to rent space for the National Science Foundation since no Government space is available and the Public Buildings Service had not budgeted for this item in 1951. Printing and binding funds will be required for the reproduction of reports and similar documents; $1,000 is included for necessary printing and binding for the Interdepartmental Committee on Scientific Research and Development. The costs for contractual services will be primarily for such special studies as may be required in conjunction with program formulation. Equipment costs are likely to be relatively high in the first year, due to the necessity for initial outfitting of the foundation's offices.

ORGANIZATION OF THE FOUNDATION

Mr. THOMAS. This is going to be a 24-man noncompensated group. When I say noncompensated, I mean they will perhaps be paid parttime, but will not be paid a regular salary. They will be paid their traveling expenses and, perhaps, a per diem.

Mr. STAATS. A per diem is authorized under the act, $25 a day. Mr. THOMAS. Then you will have a full-time director, who will be a topnotch man, as will be your 24-man board. I had this idea in mind, which I discussed with Mr. Phillips, who seemed to think well of it, too. Since things are shaping up as they are right now, and in view of the fact that nothing has been done as yet, and that the probabilities are you are going to have to be forced to move slowly because of the unpleasant Korean situation, do you not think it would be well to have $100,000 with the idea in mind that we will probably be here from here on out and can take another look at this proposal in January and see what progress you have made? My guess is that the progress that will be made will be affected to a considerable extent by the Korean situation. If that does not develop further, and we hope it will not develop further, we can take another look at it in January to see what the needs are then. How does that appeal to you?

Mr. STAATS. Mr. Chairman, I want to say this in connection with the point that you have made. The estimate of $500,000, which was put in by the committee, represented an estimate worked out between the legislative committee at that time and the Bureau of the Budget, as to what it would take to get the foundation in a position where it could really present a good estimate to the Congress as to what it would need to carry on this job for subsequent fiscal years. I have not examined this from the standpoint of what could be done with $100,000. My fear would be

Mr. THOMAS. You could not do much, but you could get your top man and he, in turn, would employ a small secretarial staff of two or three people. There would be available some traveling expenses, and that is about all.

Mr. PHILLIPS. For what could you spend money at this time? You have not appointed these 24 people. You would have only one paid officer, the Director, and a secretarial staff. There would be the item of rent, and some small items like that. Your maximum authorization was $500,000. I do not find anywhere in the testimony on the bill that they thought they were going to spend $500,000. They simply indicated that that was the maximum authorization for the first year. Then there is some ambiguous statement that thereafter a $15,000,000 estimate could be reached. What does that mean$15,000,000 per year?

Mr. STAATS. $15,000,000 per year, that is right.

Mr. PHILLIPS. $15,000,000 a year would be the maximum intended to be appropriated by this committee, is that right?

Mr. STAATS. It was intended as a limitation on the appropriations. Mr. THOMAS. The point is, Mr. Staats, we do not want to slow you down but, with world affairs shaping up as they are, I am afraid that you are not going to be able to move forward with the rapidity that you hoped.

Mr. STAATS. I appreciate the point you are making and I do not disagree with the principle involved.

Mr. THOMAS. And since we will back here certainly in January and, in my judgment, we will be here from now on, we can take another look at it 3, 4, or 5 months from now.

Mr. STAATS. We have a provision in that general appropriation bill, though, which prohibits deficiencies. It has a bearing on your suggestion. However, I would like to point out that section 7 of the