does happen in enough cases that it seems important to be able to include such establishments under the child-labor provisions of the act. Mr. ADAMS. That case that you cited would be a rare exception, would it not?

Miss MCCONNELL. Yes; that is, where the children are kept out of school for an entire school year. But we have had such instances in other logging States than Maine. That is not the only State in which that has been found.

Mr. ADAMS. You make some reference here to the incidence of accidents in messenger service. I would like to inquire if you feel-I suppose there are no figures that would substantiate your testimonywhether you feel that the incidence of accidents in the case of youngsters who are working in messenger service would be substantially greater than the incidence of accidents to youngsters who are riding the streets in the course of play or pastime.

Miss LENROOT. I agree, of course, that there are accidents of the latter type. But messenger work takes youngsters more frequently into very congested areas and they do night work and under conditions which would tend to increase the accident hazard over that to be found in leisure time pursuits.

Mr. ADAMS. So that your conclusion is that the work of youngsters in messenger service greatly increases the chance of accidents generally on the highway?

Miss LENROOT. That is correct.

Mr. ADAMS. Through the use of bicycles and other vehicles?

Miss LENROOT. That is correct.

Mr. WELCH. There is another thing that should be considered, and that is the fact that youngsters become tired.

Miss LENROOT. Yes.

Mr. WELCH. In their desire to increase their meager earnings they work hard and long hours and take chances and naturally become tired and exhausted, and in that condition they are more subject to accidents?

Miss LENROOT. That is correct.

Mr. PATTERSON. Mr. Chairman, I have no questions, but I would like to say that I am 100 percent for your proposed amendment, Miss Lenroot. I think it is terrible to quibble over such things in a modern civilization. I hope some time we will include all people, in whatever kind of work they have to do. I do not see any difference between interstate commerce and intrastate commerce. People are people. I only wish that the States themselves would pass the same kind of laws that we are trying to pass. I am certainly in favor of your proposed amendment, and I would like to compliment you upon the work you have been doing.

Miss LENROOT. Thank you very much, Mr. Patterson.

Mr. KELLEY. Thank you, Miss Lenroot; that is all.
The committee will recess until tomorrow at 10:30.

(Whereupon the committee recessed until Wednesday, November 14, 1945, at 10:30 a. m.)

(The following matter was submitted for the record:)

LAKE CARRIERS' ASSOCIATION, Cleveland 13, Ohio, November 9, 1945.

H. R. 3928, H. R. 4222, and other bills proposing amendments to Fair Labor Standards Act.

STATEMENT OPPOSING DELETION OF SEAMEN'S EXEMPTION

Hon. MARY T. NORTON,

Chairman, Committee on Labor,

United States House of Representatives,

Washington, D. C.

DEAR MADAM: Reference is made to our long-distance telephone conversation today with the clerk of your committee. We desire that this letter be filed for the record on H. R. 3928; H. R. 4222 and all other bills proposing extension of the Fair Labor Standards Act to seamen.

Lake Carriers' Association is composed of 33 companies owning and operating 324 ships which transport between ports on the Great Lakes, commodities in bulk, such as iron ore, limestone, coal, and grain. Those ships constitute about 90 percent of United States ships on the Great Lakes of 1,000 gross tons' register and over and employ about 90 percent of the seamen necessary to the crewing of all such Great Lakes ships.

MARITIME STATUTE LAW PRESCRIBES QUALIFICATIONS, DIVISION OF WATCHES, MAXIMUM HOURS, AND PAYMENT OF WAGES OF SEAMEN

Maritime statute law prescribes 'minimum qualifications for the issuance of licenses to officers and certificates of service to unlicensed seamen, fixes minimum watch divisions, establishes a maximum workday and governs the payment of wages. Initial standards having been instituted more than three-quarters of a century ago, all requirements were made more rigorous and complete by the Seamen's Act, 1915, and the Seamen's Act, 1936.

Present law now prohibits division of officers and crew into less than three equal watches and a workday of more than 8 hours. Enforcement of the laws respecting qualifications, employment hours, and working conditions vests by permanent law in the Department of Commerce. However, those functions and powers have reposed during the war in the United States Coast Guard.

EXTENSION OF FAIR LABOR STANDARDS ACT WOULD RESULT IN CONFLICTS WITH MARITIME STATUTE LAW

Removal of the exclusion with respect to seamen contained in section 13 (a) of the Fair Labor Standards Act would produce several serious conflicts between that act and existing maritime statutory regulations:

(1) There would be dual control in the matter of hours and method of payment of wages between the agency enforcing the navigation and shipping laws and the Administrator of the Fair Labor Standards Act. The evils of dual control were recognized by the Congress in the original enactment of the Fair Labor Standards Act, 1938. Reasons militating against such dual control that were recognized in 1938 are equally valid at the present time. (2) The Seamen's Act prescribes maximum hours and minimum hours and minimum division of watches on the basis of a single day. The Fair Labor Standards Act prescribes maximum hours on the basis of 1 week. The difference is explained by the underlying motives of the two laws. The Seamen's Act insures greater safety of life and property at sea. The Fair Labor Standards Act is designed primarily to spread employment by the shortening of hours and by the discouragement of hours in excess of 40 per week through the mandatory payment of overtime compensation.

(3) Extension of the Fair Labor Standards Act to seamen would constitute a substantial amendment to the Seamen's Act. To the extent that the Seamen's Act was so amended, it would be reasonable to infer that Congress was shifting the safety requirements from a day basis to a week basis. Maximum hours for each seaman would be changed from 8 hours per day to 40 hours per week. The total number of hours per week is not equally

divisible by 40; nor is 40 divisble by 7. Since ships must be operated around the clock, there could be no equal mathematical division of the officers and crew into watches and compliance with a maximum 40-hour week, unless that division were 5 or more. In other words, instead of three watches, a

ship would have 5 or more watches.

(4) Maritime statutes prescribe standards for the crewing of ships, in the interest of safety of life and property. In determining the number of persons required in a ship's complement, the administrative agency must not only give consideration to the number required to navigate the ship, but to the physical ability of the ship to house and feed and to provide adequate safety and lifesaving devices. For that reason, a certificate of inspection fixes the maximum number of persons who may be on board a ship while she is being navigated. The mandate of the Fair Labor Standards Act respecting maximum hours is in nowise tempered by safety considerations.

(5) Maritime statute law and the tradition of the sea recognize that licensed officers are ships' executives. The Fair Labor Standards Act leaves to administrative determination those who are bona fide executive employees. Present regulations follow a rule of thumb in the definition of executive employees. Among other requirements an executive employee may not perform more than 20 percent of the same kind of work as those whom he supervises. On a ship there is telescopic supervision, that is to say, a junior officer is supervised in some measure by the work of each of his superiors. By the very nature of an officer's work in the navigation of a ship or in the operation of her machinery, the highest officer of the department performs, in many instances, substantially the same kind of work as the officers whose work he directs and supervises. If present regulations of the Administrator were to apply, even masters and chief engineers might not be regarded as bona fide executive or administrative employees.

FORTY-HOUR WEEK ABOARD SHIP WOULD RAISE SERIOUS PROBLEMS RESPECTING QUARTERS AND SAFETY

Crewing and safety problems incident to the institution of a 40-hour week for merchant seamen would be fully as alarming as the legal conflicts between maritime statute law and the Fair Labor Standards Act. The average Great Lakes cargo ship now employs 36 men. Institution of a 40-hour week would require, at least, an increase in the number of watches from 3 to 4 with 2 additional licensed officers and 10 more unlicensed crew members. Even with those additional men regular overtime could not be avoided and there would be a minimum increase in pay-roll expense of about 42 percent.

Of the Great Lakes fleet operated by members of this association only 25 ships have been constructed since enactment of the Seamen's Act, 1936, which among other provisions, required substantial additional crews. The remaining 299 vessels range from 15 to 50 years of age. Few of the ships would be permitted by their present certificates of inspection to carry as many as 48 persons and none of the older ships has additional space which could be utilized for the housing of additional personnel.

EMPLOYEES OF RAILROADS, MOTOR, AND AIR CARRIERS ARE EXEMPT FROM MAXIMUM HOUR PROVISIONS

In its present form section 13 of the Fair Labor Standards Act excludes from the maximum hour provisions, in addition to seamen, the employees of railroads and motor and air carriers. The amendment to section 13 proposed by these bills would result in bringing only seamen or the employees of water carriers within those provisions. Such action would be irreconcilable with the policy of Congress to avoid overlapping jurisdiction on common subjects. Congress has heretofore made more complete provision for the protection of seamen in the enactment of maritime statutes than it has for the employees of carriers in other modes of transportation. In the extension of the Fair Labor Standards Act to transportation employees, there is more room for overlapping conflicts with respect to seamen than any other such employees.

Very truly yours,

A. T. WOOD, President.

STATEMENT OF CHESTER C. THOMPSON, PRESIDENT, THE AMERICAN WATERWAYS OPERATORS, INC., WASHINGTON 4, D. C., SUBMITTED TO LABOR COMMITTEE OF THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES ON H. R. 3719, H. R. 3837, H. R. 3844, H. R. 3914, H. R. 3928, H. R. 4130, AND H. R. 4222

This statement is made by Chester C. Thompson, president, the American Waterways Operators, Inc., a national association of domestic water carriers operating on the inland rivers, intracoastal canals and waterways, the bays, sounds, and harbors of the United States. The association maintains its principal office at 1319 F Street NW., Washington, D. C.

The carrier members of this association are engaged in the transportation of every commodity which is susceptible to movement by water, including a very large volume of petroleum and petroleum products, coal, sulfur, steel and grain, and general cargo. The carriers in the association are divided into three general classes: (1) Private carriers, who perform as a division or department of a corporation or business whose principal business is other than the transportation of cargo by barge; (2) contract carriers, or those who transport commodities, generally bulk commodities, at established rates under contract with a few shippers; and (3) common carriers, or those who transport for the public generally at rates filed with the Interstate Commerce Commission and subject to its control.

Territorially members of this association operate almost everywhere in the United States where water transportation is feasible, particularly throughout the Gulf Intracoastal Canal from western Texas points to Louisiana and Florida destinations or from the same origin points over the entire Mississippi River system, including the Ohio River and its tributaries, and the Illinois Waterway. They also operate on the Atlantic Intracoastal Waterway from Miami, Fla., to Wilmington, Del., on the Columbia River, and in various ports, harbors, and adjacent navigable waterways.

The domestic water carriers are intensely interested in and concerned with the provisions of the bills now before this committee which propose many important amendments to the Fair Labor Standards Act. Of particular concern to this industry is the fact that each of these bills, with the exception of H. R. 4130, contemplates the repeal of the seamen's exemption contained in section 13 (a) of the present Fair Labor Standards Act of 1938.

It is the considered opinion of the industry that the removal of the present exemption and the placing of seamen (deckhands, firemen, oilers, wipers, cooks, messboys, etc.), including licensed boatmen (masters, pilots, mates, and engineers) under the provisions of the Fair Labor Standards Act will destroy the industry because it cannot operate successfully and profitably under the act.

The legislative history of the Fair Labor Standards Act clearly shows that the maritime unions themselves advocated the exemption of seamen and were supported in such position by the industry because both knew from experience that it was not possible to successfully operate vessels under its provisions. There have been no developments since 1938 that have indicated this position was not proper, in fact war operations, and those presently prevailing, indicate the need of continuing the seamen's exemption contained in the 1938 act.

Employees on the vessels of domestic water carriers are not underpaid. Through collective bargaining processes they have received substantial increases in compensation and improved conditions during the period they were exempt from the Fair Labor Standards Act. The industry and its members will continue to grant increases in compensation and to improve working conditions for such employees when and as general economic and business conditions warrant. Due consideration must be given to the fact that the principal competitors of the water carriers, namely the truck lines and railroads, are, and will continue to be, exempt in whole or in part from the provisions of the Fair Labor Standards Act.

The following indicates the typical increases in compensation received by domestic water carrier vessel personnel. Similar increases could be shown for other classifications of such personnel.

COMPENSATION, PRIOR TO JUNE 1, 1943

Messboy received $90 per month or $1,080 per year with 72 days off per year. Actually worked 3,516 hours per year with hourly rate of 31 cents.

Deckhands received $115 per month or $1,380 per year with 72 days off per year. Actually worked 3,516 hours per year with hourly rate of 39 cents.

Wiper received $120 per month or $1,440 per year with 72 days off per year. Actually worked 3,516 hours per year with hourly rate of 41 cents.

COMPENSATION, JUNE 1, 1943-JUNE 1, 1944

Messboy received $90 per month or $1,080 per year with 105 days off per year. Normal basis 3,120-hours work year at hourly rate of 35 cents. War basis (work 9 out of 12 days), 4,066-hours work year at hourly rate of 43 cents, monthly earnings $145, yearly earnings, $1,740.

Deckhand received $115 per month or $1,380 per year with 105 days off per year. Normal basis: 3,120-hours work year at hourly rate of 44 cents. War basis (work 9 out of 12 days), 4,066-hours work year at hourly rate of 54 cents, monthly earnings $184, yearly earnings $2,208.

Wiper received $120 per month or $1,440 per year with 105 days off per year. Normal basis: 3,120-hour work year at hourly rate of 46 cents. War basis (work 9 out of 12 days), 4,066-hour work year at hourly rate of 57 cents, monthly earnings $192.50, yearly earnings $2 310.

PRESENT WAGE SCALE

Messboy received $121.50 per month or $1,458 per year with 105 days off per year. Actually works 3,120 hours per year at hourly rate of 47 cents.

Deckhand receives $139 per month or $1,668 per year with 105 days off per year. Actually works 3,120 hours per year at hourly rate of 53 cents.

Wiper receives $139 per month or $1,668 per year with 105 days off per year. Actually works 3,120 hours per year at hourly rate of 53 cents.

PROPOSED UNDER 65 CENTS MINIMUM WITHOUT OVERTIME PAYMENTS AND UNDER GENERALLY EXISTING PRACTICES

Messboy will receive $158 per month or $1,896 per year with 122 days off per year. Actually works 2,916 hours per year at hourly rate of 65 cents.

Deckhand will receive $180 per month or $2,160 per year with 122 days off per year. Actually works 2,916 hours per year at hourly rate of 74 cents.

Wiper will receive $180 per month or $2,160 per year with 122 days off per year. Actually works 2,916 hours per year at hourly rate of 74 cents.

In addition to the compensation shown, all vessel personnel is furnished subsistence, meals, and lodging, which costs the employers or the operators of vessels, according to the National War Labor Board, $1 per day per person. That this figure is too low is indisputably revealed by the records of the employers, which indicate an average cost of $2 per day per person.

If the present seamen's exemption in the Fair Labor Standards Act is repealed, and vessel personnel made subject thereto, the following compensation must be paid in addition to the cost of subsistence, which is an expense to the employers the same as wages paid.

PROPOSED RATE UNDER H. R. 3719, H. R. 3837, H. R. 3844, H. R. 3914, H. R. 3928 AND H. R. 4222 WITH 65 CENTS HOURLY MINIMUM AND TIME AND ONE-HALF FOR ALL HOURS OVER 40 PER WEEK

Messboy will receive $300 per month or $2,389 per year. (Assuming he takes off 122 days per year without pay.) Actually works 2,916 hours per year at average hourly rate of 82 cents.

Deckhand will receive $340 per month or $2,720 per year. (Assuming he takes off 122 days per year without pay.) Actually works 2,916 hours per year at average hourly rate of 93 cents.

Wiper will receive $340 per month or $2.720 per year. (Assuming he takes off 122 days per year without pay.) Actually works 2,916 hours per year at average hourly rate of 93 cents.

The above computations do not take into consideration that on Saturday afternoons, Sundays, and holidays the vessel crews only perform the work required for safe navigation, and only work 8 hours per day while vessel is in port. The existing and accepted practice in the industry grants boatmen a considerable number of days off with full pay, the number ranging up to 122 days per calendar year and averaging in excess of 100 days per year per employee.