Chairman ASHLEY. Thank you. Mr. Chino.

That is a very good statement. You pinpoint the specific areas of concern and make a persuasive case. I appreciate your statement. Mr. James.

STATEMENT OF HON. OVERTON JAMES, GOVERNOR, THE

CHICKASAW NATION, ADA, OKLA.

Mr. JAMES. Mr. Chairman and members of the subcommittee, I am Overton James, Governor of the Chickasaw Nation, located in south central Oklahoma. And also with me today are the principal chiefs and representatives of the Choctaw, Cherokee, Creek, and Seminole Nations. And together we make up the Five Civilized Tribes and represent about 75,000 Indians of eastern and southern Oklahoma.

I think we are all aware that American Indians today are among America's most disadvantaged citizens. Indian adults, on the average, have about two-thirds as many years of schooling as the national average of 12 years. The life expectancy for Indians is about 10 percent less than the average American.

The unemployment rate among Indians is six or seven times that of the national average. Approximately 50 percent of Indian families have yearly incomes below $5,000 and 75 percent have incomes below $7,000.

Housing among Indians is typically substandard. There should be no question that housing assistance for Indians is badly needed. The Bureau of Indian Affairs consolidated housing inventory, at the end of fiscal year 1978, showed that nearly 50 percent of the houses occupied by Indian families were substandard. Congress' own GAO report of a couple of years ago shows that in recent years, instead of substandard housing declining in Indian communities, substandard housing was and is on the rise.

We have prepared a book of some pictures, actual photographs that we want to make available and present this book to Mr. Watkins. But, for instance, one picture here shows a tin sheet iron barn and an old bus body that provides housing for a family of nine children. This family has lived under these conditions for the last 5 years, waiting to be placed in a new Indian home.

Oklahoma is unique in many ways. We have the greatest number of Indians than any other State-we do not live on reservations in Oklahoma. We have only been eligible for Indian housing assistance since 1966. This places Oklahoma tribes 30 years behind, to start, because reservation-based States have had Indian housing since 1936.

Tribes in Oklahoma have only received community development block grants for 3 years. Additional funding in this area will enable us to repair and modernize existing Indian-owned houses.

According to the consolidated housing inventory of the Bureau of Indian Affairs for fiscal year 1979, there exists a need for 10,531 new housing units to replace substandard houses and provide housing for Indian families needing housing. This report only applies to Indians living within the jurisdiction of the Five Civilized Tribes which includes eastern Oklahoma.

We realize that additional units and/or funds allocated to Indian housing is not going to cure all our ills; however, it will go a long way in meeting our needs.

We recognize the political and economic need for the Federal Government to consider a reduction in Federal spending; however, it seems that Indian housing funds are first to be considered for a cut and a far greater percent cutback than other housing programs. Compared to other housing activities and funding, Indian housing is a drop in the bucket-and the tragedy of what is happening in the Congress and in HUD is that instead of Indian housing being favored due to the great needs and unique conditions of Indian people, the reverse is occurring.

The Department of HUD, over the years, has generally failed to develop an effective housing program for Indians. It has offered little attention or true concern for its Indian housing program.

My recommendations for improving the housing program for Indians of eastern Oklahoma are:

No. 1, there needs to be established within HUD two categories of Indian housing: one as it would relate to reservation-based Indians; and the other structured to meet the needs of nonreservation-based Indians, such as Oklahoma. Housing authorities sponsored by the Five Civilized Tribes have the expertise and management capabilities equal to any non-Indian housing authority in the State.

No. 2, it is sad that it takes longer to process the paperwork-18 to 24 months-than it takes to build a project. A fully staffed Indian section within the HUD area office in Oklahoma City will help greatly to alleviate this time lag. No more redtape should be required for processing Indian housing than it takes for a section 203(b) house under FHA.

No. 3, HUD presently prefers that projects be packaged in not less than 50 units and they require a final site approval on all 50 sites before construction may start. Projects could be advertised and awarded in smaller numbers, therefore enabling more builders to participate.

No. 4, I recommend to the subcommittee that a special task force be established on Indian and rural housing to fully study existing problems that are now strangling tribes and Indian housing authorities in their efforts to provide safe, sanitary, and decent housing for deserving Indian families.

Chairman ASHLEY. Thank you, Governor.

Mr. Black, did you have a statement?

Mr. BLACK. I should like to read our recommendations from the National Tribal Chairmen Association, and agree wholeheartedly with the testimony that our previous persons have delivered.

The first recommendation is that the design flexibility should meet the requirements of the region, economically, and also social consideration be given. If the Pueblos want to build their homes out of adobe, they should be allowed to do so. We find adobe structures have stood for 4,000 years. I don't think that there needs to be a study conducted as to whether it is adequate material.

No. 2, passive solar heating, energy-efficient homes should not only be encouraged by incentives, but should be a necessity in all of our housing programs.

No. 3, the development of housing should be an integral part of economic and community development programs, with multiagency cooperation and coordination being a requirement set forth by Congress to the Department of HUD, the Economic Development Administration, the Indian Health Service, and the Bureau of Indian Affairs, with a minimum amount of housing units assigned per annum; that if they have told Congress that they want to build 6,000 units per year, I think Congress should hold them to it and tell them to find the means to build 6,000 units.

HUD has informed Congress since 1971 and 1972 that they were going to build 6,000 units a year. They have never at any particular point in time been able to build more than 4,000, so realistically this year they said we are going to try to build 4,000 units. And we are suffering. We need the 6,000 units. So we need some catching up here.

The last in regard to economic development and the Department of Housing, if you are going to build a sewer system, then build the sewer system to meet the entire community's need rather than to just build a sewer system that handles an industrial park or to build a sewer system that only handles the housing and then you are going to find yourself building a sewer system for the buildings of the industrial park, you are going to find one sewer system to handle the building and then you are going to find another one to handle housing.

This one sewer system, if it was planned correctly could have been built and designed to handle the entire community.

Thank you, sir.

Chairman ASHLEY. Thank you, Mr. Black.

Let me just ask you a question, Mr. Black, about the suggestions that you have offered, first, with respect to design flexibility. You say they should meet the requirements of the region, taking into account economic and social considerations. You mentioned adobe. You are suggesting that there be regional considerations based on the types of building materials which are found in such locations, but it shouldn't be within the province of HUD, should it, to determine the adequacy of such materials?

Mr. BLACK. I agree with this. Let us, for example, take another example in Oklahoma. HUD will not approve a prototype house that has a basement, and yet Oklahoma has 60 to 150 tornadoes a year. The neighboring State of Kansas, those Indians in their housing authorities have basements in their homes that they go to these basements in time. of tornadoes, floods, whatever. And here are two States side by side with different types of prototypes arbitrarily set by whoever is in the Director's seat in HUD, and you will not find in Oklahoma one Indian house that has a basement.

Now, what they have said is, OK, as part of the package, we need to build cellars. Well, have you ever tried to run from a house to a cellar in a tornado? You know, that is a 150-mile-an-hour wind; you can't make it. It would be much more convenient, if I was given my choice of a carport or a cellar, I would be tempted to take the cellar each time, sir. And this is what I mean by social considerations.

Chairman ASHLEY. What do you think is the appropriate role that tribal governments might assume in relation to planning of housing development and the development of housing-projects or individual