The next category was a new-house building effort to provide standard housing for those people, mostly elderly, that couldn't participate in other programs.

The program as it now stands, has four categories. We essentially did away with the transitional housing category, which, in effect, built second-class housing, and we have the two repair categories, one still running, to provide for the health and safety of the occupants while they wait for new housing, the other to preserve the existing housing stock and the two new-house building categories of downpayments and new-house building.

The program is one that is very popular. It operates with a minimum of administration and a maximum of impact. It gets down to the people quickly and directly, and it has an ability to combine its funds with other programs.

Because it does this, other programs, other Federal programs, local programs, private money, tribal money, and any combination thereof, we have been able to achieve higher production levels, both for repairs and new houses than would otherwise be expected from the funding level we have.

There is a chart in the prepared statement for the last 3 years giving you some idea of our production.

The other effort in the Bureau of Indian Affairs is called the resident training and counseling program, and it is commonly known as RTCP.

The history of this program is one that involved the Bureau of Indian Affairs in the management of housing for its preservation, and assistance to housing authorities, the tribes, and HUD to help the Indian people to transition into a new physical environment.

There were some selfish motives in this also, selfish from the Government's standpoint, as to the management and preservation of the newly built houses.

It was quickly understood that people transitioning into a new environment needed some help to understand the responsibilities and the common everyday situations they would face in living in a new house with modern utilities, a water system, and so forth.

These early efforts that we undertook by ourselves and in combination with HUD and the Indian Health Service in fact among all three agencies were singularly ineffective; in fact, they didn't work very well at all.

And we tried several methods.

Finally, in 1973, in the Dakotas, we started a program with the housing authorities there that they requested, with one understanding: That the housing authorities do this themselves with local people. When I say "with an understanding," this was a combination, or, rather, this was an understanding that we reached together. It wasn't our idea, it wasn't theirs. It evolved that way..

It proved moderately successful and we extended the program a bit more to Montana, Wyoming, and Oklahoma. And we achieved some remarkable successes with this program, success from at local level, from the people desiring the program. It was a choice of theirs and I think that was the measure that is responsible for a great deal of its

success and effectiveness. The RTCP was recognized by HUD in 1975 and included in the original Indian housing regulations published March 9, 1976, which had an addendum to the interdepartmental agreement for resident training and counseling program.

Part of the program, in addition to using local people, is an insistence that the trainers and the counselors there is a little difference in the two; one is more administrative-the resident counselors and trainers be educated.

That, in fact, they go through a 4-week nonconsecutive course to learn how to do their jobs. This course is taught mainly by people who have gone through the course already and other housing authority personnel, HUD personnel, and some of our contract personnel at the University of Wisconsin.

Briefly, what the program does, it enables a family to be more capable in dealing with situations that confront them. Families are also able to make decisions related to these situations and are able to better understand and accept the responsibilities and consequences that accompany those decisions.

The program, as it stands now, in addition to the funding of the housing authorities by the Bureau, also assists in monitoring and evaluating some 30 HUD-funded resident training and counseling programs. And for these programs also, we apply the same high standards that we apply to our own program, possibly somewhat even higher.

That, coupled with our own program, comprise the resident training and counseling program.

The other effort underway somewhat reduced in today's time is the housing development effort. This provides expertise for tribes, tribal housing authorities, and individuals. It was a major effort of ours, and to really start the housing program in the Department of the Interior and the Bureau of Indian Affairs, the effort started early in combination with the HUD people, rather HHFA and then PHA people working on the housing programs for Indians.

And as a result of this, in May of 1963, the two commissioners signed the initial agreement between PHA and BIA to start the mutual help program.

The Bureau of Indian Affairs mutual help program progressed— or rather, the Bureau of Indian Affairs participation in it—was one of providing staff, other support and expertise, technical assistance, and assistance to the housing authorities.

The process was a long and time-consuming one that required a great deal of patience, family sacrifice, and as mutual help programs do or force account programs do, it requires the Government agencies to provide large staffs and pay high overhead and wait a long time for construction completion.

This caused some problems in the early years with our own appropriation committees. The problem simply was that we were to supply a construction superintendent for every 20 houses that HUD would fund. Quickly as you can see, that this ran our construction superintendent request total up into the hundreds because, as the program became recognized and accepted by Indian people, its demand grew. And the demand, although in absolute terms at that time, was small, it got up into several hundreds and then close to the thousand unit mark, which at that time was a big jump from nothing.

Well, our inability to get construction superintendents changed our role that we had proceeded with for about 4 years.

In 1968, we recognized that it was time to extract ourselves from the middleman position between HUD and housing authorities. The housing authorities were getting to a point where this was not only acceptable; it may never have been acceptable as a matter of fact, but the program had been conceived that way, it was not acceptable for us to make rubber stamps out of Indian housing authority. So we changed our role, extracting ourselves from the middleman position. We stopped the construction superintendent role also.

This led to a coordination and production agreement in 1969, the first major agreement which set out, a really major level of effort among the three departments-HUD, BIA, and IHS.

This agreement was more of a reflection of the budget process, frankly, than a reflection of the goals and the needs in housing.

But it was a formal commitment to produce so many houses among the three agencies to be supported by the Indian Health Service water and sanitary facilities program. And that also streamlined some of our efforts and eliminated some other efforts.

This coordination led to the interdepartmental task force to which Secretary McHenry made reference. It began work in 1975, and produced the first Indian housing regulations and interdepartmental agreement published with those regulations in 1976.

The regulations redefined, streamlined, reduced, and/or eliminated overlapping responsibilities of the Federal agencies. It also focused on the housing authority as a primary cog for the HUD Indian housing programs, a significant change over the 10 or 12 years prior to that.

As with the program as well as relations with HUD and the Indian Health Service, our staff assistance continues to change. It changes even now and the staff assistance provides Indian tribes, tribal leaders, housing authorities, and individuals with a broad range of housing knowledge, or with a broad range of assistance and technical expertise for Federal housing activities and programs.

It helps with everything from what these programs are to the paperwork required.

Our staff people are mainly at the local level. They provide this expertise, along with statistical gathering and running the housing improvement program and the resident training and counseling

program.

These three major efforts are essentially the Bureau's role in housing at this time.

I hope this overview of the BIA's housing component furthers an understanding of the Bureau's role in the Indian housing effort and, naturally, I would be happy to answer any questions you may have.

[Mr. Peake's prepared statement on behalf of the Bureau of Indian Affairs of the Department of the Interior follows:]

STATEMENT OF G. RONALD PEAKE, CHIEF, DIVISION OF HOUSING ASSISTANCE, BUREAU OF INDIAN AFFAIRS, DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR, BEFORE THE INDIAN AND ALASKAN NATIVE HOUSING PROGRAMS OVERSIGHT HEARING OF THE SUBCOMMITTEE ON HOUSING AND COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT OF THE COMMITTEE ON BANKING, FINANCE, AND URBAN AFFAIRS, U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, FEBRUARY 20, 1980.

MR. CHAIRMAN AND MEMBERS OF THE COMMITTEE, I AM PLEASED

TO TESTIFY TODAY ON THE PAST AND PRESENT INVOLVEMENT OF THE

BUREAU OF INDIAN AFFAIRS IN THE IMPROVEMENT OF THE HOUSING
CONDITIONS OF AMERICAN INDIAN PEOPLE.

THE BIA'S MAIN HOUSING EFFORT IS THE HOUSING IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM (COMMONLY KNOWN AS HIP). THE HOUSING IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM STARTED AS AN OUTGROWTH OF A DISASTER RELIEF EFFORT RESULTING FROM FLOODING IN MONTANA AND CALIFORNIA. THE INITIAL REQUEST FOR FUNDS FOR A NEW HOUSE BUILDING EFFORT OF "CORE" HOMES OF PANELIZED CONSTRUCTION AND INCLUDING SOME REPAIR WORK, APPEARS IN THE BIA'S FY 1964 BUDGET JUSTIFICATIONS. THE PROGRAM STARTED WITH THE UNDERSTANDING THERE WOULD BE A HIGH DEGREE OF SELF-HELP WHERE POSSIBLE. ACTIVE PARTICIPATION IN THE CONSTRUCTION PROCESS AS WELL AS USE OF THE FAMILIES' ASSETS SUCH AS LAND AND MATERIALS WAS ENCOURAGED. THE PROGRAM WAS ALSO COMBINED WITH OTHER SERVICES OF THE BUREAU AND THE WATER AND SANITATION FACILITIES PROGRAM OF THE INDIAN HEALTH SERVICE (IHS).

ALSO DURING THAT TIME, THE BUREAU'S HOUSING EFFORT WAS DIRECTLY SUPPORTING THE PUBLIC HOUSING ADMINISTRATION (PHA) FINANCED INDIAN HOUSING EFFORT, AND IN ORDER THAT THE TWO PROGRAMS NOT OVERLAP, IT WAS DECIDED THAT THE BUREAU HOUSING PROGRAM WOULD SERVE THE VERY POOR. CONSEQUENTLY, THE EARLY APPROPRIATION REQUESTS FOR HOUSING IMPROVEMENT APPEAR AS A SUB-ACTIVITY WITHIN THE WELFARE SERVICES REQUEST. THE INITIAL REQUESTS WERE FOR $500,000 IN FY 1964 AND $500,000 IN FY 1965.

AS THE HUD PROGRAM GREW, THE BUREAU CHANGED ITS CONSTRUCTION EFFORT MORE TOWARDS A HOUSING IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM. BY FY 1967 THE MAIN THRUST OF THE HIP WAS THE REPAIR AND RENOVATION OF EXISTING STRUCTURES. THIS REPAIR AND RENOVATION EFFORT FOLLOWED THE POLICY OF MAKING NEEDED REPAIRS FOR THE HEALTH AND/OR SAFETY OF OCCUPANTS UNTIL THEY COULD OBTAIN STANDARD HOUSING AND OF PRESERVING WHAT STRUCTURALLY SOUND HOUSES WERE AVAILABLE BY BRINGING SUCH HOMES TO STANDARD CONDITION.

FROM THE INCEPTION, THE REPAIR EFFORT BECAME CLOSELY ASSOCIATED WITH THE IHS EFFORT UNDER PUBLIC LAW 86-121 AND CONCENTRATED ON PROVIDING BATHROOM ADDITIONS TO EXISTING STRUCTURES. ALTHOUGH THE IHS AND BIA PROGRAMS ARE STILL CLOSELY ASSOCIATED, THE REPAIR AND RENOVATION EFFORTS ARE