Dr. DUNBAR. That is right.

Mr. TABER. How many have you got right now? I would like to have you put in the record a statement showing what you had on the 1st of July. How many have you got now, or how many did you have on February 1, or January 31, or January 1, or whatever date you have the figures for?

Dr. DUNBAR. On January 1 we had on the rolls 948 people. That includes the 800 I have been discussing, under this item, plus the penicillin and insulin testing groups and a group of seafood inspectors. Mr. TABER. They are on another roll?

Dr. DUNBAR. They are on the certification roll. We have certain self-supporting items and we are authorized to make inspections and receive compensation for that work, and that money is turned into the Treasury. We have about 200 people on that work.

Mr. TABER. The 948 includes 200 on another roll?
Dr. DUNBAR. Yes; about 150 is more nearly correct.

Mr. TABER. Then there are only about 798 on the regular rolls?
Dr. DUNBAR. That is right; on this roll.

Mr. TABER. That gives you a margin of about a 50-job increase in your regular appropriation?

Dr. DUNBAR. I am not sure that I understand that.

Mr. TABER. There are 855.6 man-years in the original appropriation, and that means approximately 875 jobs. That means you are still 77 positions short of your appropriation. You still have money enough to increase the positions by about 75 or 77 without another dollar, on that basis. There is something the matter with these things somewhere.

Dr. DUNBAR. I have given you those figures from memory.
Mr. MUNCHMEYER. We can check up on that.

Dr. DUNBAR. It is practically 133.

Mr. TABER. That leaves 815. That means that you could still have 60 that you could put on without going beyond what your appropriation called for.

Mr. MUNCHMEYER. Eight hundred and thirty-five man-years.

Mr. TABER. But you have not been up to 835 man-years any of the time, have you?

Mr. MUNCHMEYER. We are way above.

Mr. TABER. Eight hundred and thirty-five man-years means 860 to 875 positions.

Mr. MUNCHMEYER. Yes.

Mr. TABER. You have not been up to 860 positions at any time on this roll.

all.

Mr. MUNCHMEYER. We have been, January 1; yes.

Mr. TABER. How many do you have on the roll now?

Mr. MUNCHMEYER. Slightly over 1,000 people on the roll now.
Mr. TABER. Instead of putting on 20, you have put on 120.

Mr. MUNCHMEYER. No; that would be 52. That 1,000 is over

Mr. TABER. You have put 50 on this pay roll since January 1; is that right?

Mr. MUNCHMEYER. That is correct, sir.

Mr. TABER. Do you mean that you have 865 now?
Mr. MUNCHMEYER. Eight hundred and sixty-five.

Mr. TABER. You gave us a figure of 815.

Mr. MUNCHMEYER. That was at January 1.

Dr. DUNBAR. We have added 20.

Mr. MUNCHMEYER. For this roll.

Mr. TABER. That would make it 835.

Dr. DUNBAR. That is right.

Mr. TABER. Which should bring you well within your appropriation because your average for the year would not be above that. Now, I just do not see how you make out a case for this additional money on that basis.

EXPENDITURES AND OBLIGATIONS

How much money did you spend out of this appropriation for the first 7 months?

Mr. MUNCHMEYER. We were below our apportionment, sir. I cannot recall what it was, but we were below our apportionment by about $50,000.

Mr. TABER. You will have had, including your wage increase item due to Public Law 106, $433,000 in addition to an appropriation of $2,794,400 which makes a total of $3,227,400. Now, how much of that has been spent so far?

Mr. MUNCHMEYER. I can furnish those figures for the record after the close of this month's business if you wish.

Mr. TABER. As of the 1st of March-all right; how long will it take you to do that?

Mr. MUNCHMEYER. We close our books after today's business. It usually takes about a week to balance them out. I can give you the January 31 figure.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Do you not have those figure here?

Mr. MUNCHMEYER. No.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Do you not have the expenditures for any recent month?

Mr. MUNCHMEYER. No; I have not.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. How did you arrive at this estimate if you do not know what you have been spending?

Mr. MUNCHMEYER. I do not recall the exact figures. All I recall, sir, is that we are within the Budget Bureau apportionment of funds. Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. You are asking for $136,000 as an increase here in addition to what you have had, and you do not know what you have spent?

Mr. MUNCHMEYER. We have those figures at the office, sir, but I cannot recall the exact figures.

(The figures were later supplied as follows:)

Expenditures and obligations for the enforcement appropriation were $1,931,623 as of January 31, 1946.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Certainly this committee is entitled to information of that character if it is going to take any intelligent action. Mr. TABER. Did not the Budget Bureau ask you anything of that sort?

Mr. MUNCHMEYER. The Budget Bureau gets reports of our expenditures monthly.

Mr. TABER. Does the Budget Bureau go into these things at all? Dr. DUNBAR. Very extensively, sir.

Mr. TABER. That is the first question that they should ask before they begin to talk about an apportionment and a supplemental estimate. Now, I just do not see this. It irritates me to have them sending things up here without going into them.

Dr. DUNBAR. We have those figures. It is almost impossible to anticipate what questions will be asked.

Mr. TABER. Are you not ever asked those questions?

Dr. DUNBAR. Oh, yes.

Mr. TABER. This is the first time you have ever been asked that question?

Dr. DUNBAR. By this committee; yes.

Mr. TABER. It is?

Dr. DUNBAR. As to a specific statement as to what part of an apprcpriation we have spent up to a specific date.

Mr. TABER. This subcommittee always asks those questions.

Dr. DUNBAR. I think this has been my second appearance before this committee. It is a very unusual thing for us to ask for a supplemental item. I certainly will be aware of that need the next time I appear, and I guarantee that I can give you those figures as soon as we get back to the office.

This is a great deal like an oral examination at school-we do not know what the teacher is going to ask and we cannot be prepared on everything.

NEED FOR ADDITIONAL EMPLOYEES

Mr. TABER. You have in here for the budget next year an increase in this particular appropriation upward of 1,000 employees. Dr. DUNBAR. Yes.

Mr. TABER. That is quite a considerable jump. I just do not understand why you need such an increase as that.

Dr. DUNBAR. Mr. Taber, you were in Congress when this Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act was passed, and unless I am mistaken you voted for it. I am sure you would, because you are interested in that kind of legislation.

The Congress spent 5 years drawing up this law. It was a nonpartisan measure and the best minds in both Houses worked on it and they developed what in my judgment is a monument to legislative efficiency in enacting a statute which is strictly for the protection of the public and the honest manufacturer.

Congress expected us to enforce this law when they assigned it to us. We take the responsibility very seriously. We have tried to come before the subcommittee handling our appropriation and present to it arguments which we think are sound for the base appropriation which we are operating under. We have not exceeded the number of personnel that the committee has authorized us to appoint. We are working on matters which distinctly affect the public health; which distinctly affects the public pocketbook, your pocketbook and my pocketbook, and the pocketbooks of everyone in America.

I am merely trying to present here our view of the additional amount of funds that will be necessary to carry on this work at the level which Congress has already indicated it believed was desirable for the public protection.

I am sorry that I cannot answer all the questions that you ask. It is not through any desire to be evasive in any way. I came into this

service when Dr. Wiley was Chief of the old Bureau of Chemistry, and I am interested in this work because of its importance from the standpoint of everybody concerned. I make no apologies for using 1,000 people to protect 130,000,000 people in this country in the regulatory control of all imported and all domestic interstate shipments of food, durgs, cosmetics, and other products which we are called upon to regulate.

We have five laws to enforce; not merely the Food and Drugs Act. We are talking here today just about the 880 people that we want put on to do the enforcement work under the Food, Drug, and Cosmetics Act and our four other laws. The total of 1,000 people we now have on our rolls includes not merely the Food and Drug Act enforcement group but certification services and those testing insulin that diabetics must use as well as the penicillin-testing specialists.

Mr. TABER. Those would be items outside of this appropriation. Dr. DUNBAR. That covers the personnel included in this 1,000 people that you are referring to.

Mr. TABER. No; it does not. You are mistaken on that. Mr. MUNCHMEYER. Certification people are in the next item. Mr. TABER. Next year you are asking for over 1,000 on this particular roll?

Mr. MUNCHMEYER. Yes.

Mr. TABER. You are talking about your next budget.

Dr. DUNBAR. That is right. I did not mean to insinuate otherwise. I am talking about the 1,000 that we have on the rolls now.

Mr. TABER. That is another question.

Dr. DUNBAR. I want to see reasonable enforcement of these acts. Mr. TABER. I want to see reasonable enforcement of these acts. On the other hand, I do not like to see a tremendous build-up of governmental personnel. This is going to give you at least 50 percent more personnel than you had in 1940, is it not?

Mr. MUNCHMEYER. I do not think so.

Mr. TABER. Oh, yes, it is. You never had over 600 before the war. Mr. LARRICK. We had another law then. We had the old purefood law. The new law was enacted in 1938 and did not become fully operative until 1940. We had all the responsibility of the new law. Mr. TABER. You did not have over 600 people when you first started.

Mr. LARRICK. I do not recall exactly.

Mr. MUNCHMEYER. I do not recall, but I think it was more than that. I can insert that in the record if you wish.

(The information requested is as follows:)

Eight hundred and thirteen positions were budgeted for the fiscal year 1940 for the work performed under the present appropriation item "Enforcement operations".

Mr. TABER. You did not have any reduction in force as you went into the war.

Mr. MUNCHMEYER. No.

Mr. TABER. That is what bothers me, that you are getting an increase of at least 50 percent in your personnel. That is the thing that bothers me about all of these departments. They are all asking for a great big increase in personnel.

Is this increase being asked for because there is a particular need for it, or is it being asked for just to keep those on the roll who are

already there and to provide jobs for those who are coming back and still keep the same ones on the rolls?

Dr. DUNBAR. Not at all. There is a need. We have never had in our judgment-and we have said this repeatedly enough appropriation to enforce this law the way it ought to be enforced to give public protection.

I do not want to bore the Committee with instances of the sort of thing that we are engaged in. I could tell you of case after case where human life would be actually at stake if it were not for the fact that we are engaged in this operation.

TESTING OF VITAMIN PRODUCTS

Here [indicating] is the sort of thing that I am talking about. You know the amount of publicity that has been given to vitamins; the popularity that vitamin products have. The people are vitamincrazy. Vitamins are good things and there are innumerable vitamin products on the market making all sorts of claims.

Because there are innumerable vitamin products on the market making claims for certain potencies, we have a project rather a minor one-for routinely sampling and analyzing these vitamin preparations, be they pills or liquids or what not, that are being shipped in interstate commerce, to determine whether they have the vitamin content claimed for them.

Now, here [indicating] is a product labeled "Vitamin B complex No. 2." Its label bears the formula showing the different vitamins and the number of vitamins and the amount of vitamins in the mixture.

Our inspector picked this up in this routine sampling of vitamins expecting to have it checked to see that it contained the vitamins in the amount claimed on the label.

Notice that this is in a bottle intended for injection by the physician. Mr. O'NEAL. American-made?

Dr. DUNBAR. Yes, sir. I will not put the name in the. record because there is a case pending on it. It has a rubber cap on it which permits the doctor to insert his hypodermic needle through the rubber cap, draw out the amount he needs to inject into the patient. By the greatest of good fortune our inspector got into the consignee's establishment the very day this shipment was received. There were 98 of these bottles. He shipped the bottle immediately to our vitamin laboratory here in Washington. We concentrate our vitamin work here because we do not have the equipment to do it elsewhere. We use rats and mice for making our tests.

When the chemist took that sample and drew out a specimen to assay it for its vitamin content he immediately noticed that it did not have the normal appearance of vitamin B complex solution. You cannot see that because it is in a colored glass bottle, but it had a light yellowish color and it is oily.

What we discovered immediately was that the product was not a water solution of vitamin B complex but it was an oil solution of estrogen, a substance that is used for regulating certain female difficulties. If that stuff had been injected by the physician it would have killed the patient instantly. It was just by pure luck that our inspector got there and took that sample before any of those 98 ampules, or bottles, were distributed to physicians. If he had not