REVISION OF COPYRIGHT LAWS WEDNESDAY, MARCH 11, 1936 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, The committee met at 10 a. m., Hon. William I. Sirovich (chair man) presiding. The CHAIRMAN. The Chair recognizes Mr. Baldwin. Mr. DEEN. Mr. Chairman The CHAIRMAN. Just a minute. Give your name, Mr. Baldwin. Mr. BALDWIN. James W. Baldwin. The CHAIRMAN. Whom do you represent. Mr. BALDWIN. I am managing director of the National Association of Broadcasters. The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Deen? Mr. DEEN. I realize that the schedule has been printed and various witness furnished copies of the schedule, and Mr. Baldwin is here to testify. I have no brief for Mr. Baldwin or his organization, or any other organization connected with these hearings, but it seems to me that since several questions were asked yesterday by the members of the committee of Senator Duffy, with respect to certain phases of his bill, S. 3407, and since Senator Duffy stated in answer to four or five questions of members, that he did not know the answers to those questions but said that the interdepartmental committee, the members of which committee he called, have that information, it seems to me that it would be entirely appropriate at this time to make a transfer, that is, an exchange between Mr. Baldwin and the chairman of the interdepartmental committee, who is Dr. McClure, from the State Department. I do not know what Dr. McClure knows about the bill or the copyright problems, and I do not know what he does not know about them. But I do think, in view of Senator Duffy's reference there, that Dr. McClure and Mr. Baldwin should exchange places and have Mr. Baldwin wait for Dr. McClure, and let us have his testimony at this time. I make that motion, Mr. Chairman. Mr. DUNN. Mr. Chairman, maybe Mr. Baldwin has made arrangements to somewhere. The CHAIRMAN. The Chair is ready to rule on this matter. The committee, through the chairman, has organized a program of hearings, and we have arranged to call witnesses from all over the country. Mr. McClure is located here in Washington, and he will be put down later for appearance before the committee, and since 53579-36 -17 253 arrangements were made yesterday that Mr. Baldwin should go on, we will ask him to proceed. Mr. O'MALLEY. Mr. Chairman, I understood Mr. Deen's request was in the form of a motion. Mr. CHURCH. Mr. Chairman, if that is agreeable to the other witnesses present, it seems to me that Mr. Baldwin would be willing, and it seems to me that if so, we could do that. However, it does seem to me that we ought to ask Mr. Baldwin. The CHAIRMAN. It dislocates the entire hearing, for the simple reason that we have made arrangements with the Hotel Owners' Association, through their president, to be here next week, Tuesday and Wednesday, when the hotel owners will be represented, and we cannot dislocate the hearings, especially in view of the fact that people are coming from all over. Go ahead, Mr. Baldwin. Mr. CHURCH. Mr. Chairman, I would like to give these witnesses a chance to accommodate themselves. If they prefer to wait and to have us put another witness on here, to follow the logical sequence of these hearings, I think it would be better. It seems to me that Mr. Deen is right. This is the first time I ever saw this list of hearings. I tried to get it last night, before this hearing today, and I was able to get it finally late last night for one party, but I did not see it myself. I would like to know from the witnesses whether they are following these hearings, and they want to be accommodated a little bit, because they are the people to be considered. They are either interested in this bill, in favor of it, or against it. If the witness desires to wait, then I would like to know about it. Mr. DEEN. Mr. Chairman, in that connection I have not discussed it with the witness, and I do not know whether he desires to wait. Mr. CHURCH. I do not know either, and it is the first time I ever saw the gentleman. Mr. DEEN. He may be insulted at my suggestion, because I do not know whether he wants to wait, but I have concern for the sequence of the hearings, very much concern. Mr. CHURCH. So have I. Mr. O'MALLEY. There has not been any sequence. Mr. CHURCH. There certainly has not. Mr. BALDWIN. Mr. Chairman, may I state for the benefit of the committee, in line with the conversation that we had yesterday afternoon, it has been our feeling, sir, that all of the proponents of the bill should be heard previous to our putting in our testimony. That is the way we felt about it. As I explained to you yesterday, Mr. Chairman, we want to cooperate with your committee and to expedite the hearings just as much as we possibly can. However, it was your feeling that we should follow Senator Duffy, and I told you that we would be here prepared to go on, and we are prepared to go on, yet at the same time we are perfectly willing to stand aside until such time in the future as you desire us to appear, should that be your choice. Mr. CHURCH. Would you prefer to step aside, on account of my suggestion here? Mr. BALDWIN. Mr. Church, it has been our position that we very much prefer to follow all of the opponents of the bill, because we are supporting the bill. Mr. CHURCH. In view of the fact that for 6 consecutive days, practically, the opponents were heard, you would feel that it would be more consistent to get the whole story! Is that right? Mr. BALDWIN. That is true. Mr. CHURCH. I think that is a fair proposition, Mr. Chairman. I take the position that the proponents of the bill ought to tell us what the bill means. Since that was delayed for 7 or 8 days of hearing, I think their position is good. Now we are in the middle of this bill from Senator Duffy. The Department can follow right along where he left off, and I think it is no more than good sense, and is a good suggestion from Mr. Deen, that that procedure be followed. Their committee wrote the bill, Mr. Chairman. The CHAIRMAN. Just a minute. Mr. CHURCH. The representative of the Government is here. Senator Duffy stated, and I understand it was clearly stated here that they wrote the bill. I think we ought to hear from them. The CHAIRMAN. If the committee will remember, when the American Society of Composers, Authors, and Publishers, who were on hearing, were presenting their views to the committee, the motion was made by Congressman O'Malley that the next 2 weeks be given over to the radio interests, to the hotel interests, and to the other interests that are in opposition to the viewpoint of the Ameri-can Society, and it was based upon the condition that we then arrange to have Senator Duffy come here, and be followed by the radio interests and by the hotel interests, and then to go on in sequence, taking testimony from those who have information to give to the committee. Mr. O'MALLEY. Mr. Chairman, there was no motion made by me, as the record will show, regarding the hearings at all. I pointed out, for the information of the committee and all those interested in the bill, that 2 weeks had been devoted to the opponents of the bill, and that the original schedule of the committee had been for 4 weeks of hearing, and as a result of 2 weeks having been devoted to the opponents, I maintained that 2 weeks should also be devoted to the proponents of the bill, to give them equal time. Yesterday, it was intimated that these hearings would be extended until April 23, at which time I assume Congress will be adjourned, if not earlier, so that I made no motion concerning the hearings, and the record will support that. If it is the intention of this committee to continue the hearings. until April 23, I can see no objection at all to the opponents continuing and winding up their statements, and then they be followed by the proponents. I object to continuing these hearings until April 23, of course, because at that time there will be no hope of any legislation being passed. I think that is perfectly apparent. If the record will be checked by the clerk, you will see that I made no motion at all, and I think since we have started with a proponent of the bill, Senator Duffy, that we ought to hear from the Department. I am in agreement with Congressman Deen on that matter. Mr. CHURCH. Mr. Chairman, I move, therefore, since the Department is here and ready, and since that seems to be the consensus of opinion among the witnesses, that they would rather be heard in that order, I move that that is the order in which we hear them today.. Mr. DEEN. Pending that motion, Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask the Chair if he would inquire from the witness from the State Department as to whether he is ready to go on. We have asked Mr. Baldwin, and I think that is only fair to both sides. Mr. DUNN. Mr. Baldwin, did I understand you to say that you have no objection if the State Department be heard from today? Mr. BALDWIN. Mr. Dunn, we have no objection. We wish to place ourselves before your committee. Mr. DUNN. It does not inconvenience you in any way? Mr. DUNN. Because sometimes you men come down and stay around for a couple of days and do not know when you are going to be heard, and it puts you to a great deal of inconvenience. The fact that you were told yesterday that you were going to be heard leads me to believe and to say that it is only fair that we should give you the opportunity. If you have no objection, I will agree with what the committee thinks is best to do. Mr. BALDWIN. We gladly abide by the wishes of the committee. Mr. CHURCH. I want to ask Dr. McClure as to whether he is ready. Mr. MCCLURE. The question is propounded to me as a member of the interdepartmental committee. I am a member of a group set up to be at the service of Members of Congress, and I am always ready and am at your service, sir. Mr. CHURCH. I renew my motion, Mr. Chairman. The CHAIRMAN. Congressman Lanham, you were absent at the beginning of this discussion. We had arranged, in conformity with the request of Congressman O'Malley at the conclusion of the hearings a week ago, to have Senator Duffy, the radio interests, and the hotel interests consume the next 2 weeks, so that we could play fair and square with every group that was anxious to be heard. In conformity and with that understanding, we called upon Senator Duffy yesterday. We were anxious that Senator Duffy should continue today; but, unfortunately, Senator Duffy had other business in the Senate, which made it impossible for him to come here today, so that we arranged that he should come back and finish tomorrow. We then told Mr. Baldwin that he would be called upon today to testify, and that was arranged. Now, when we come here this morning Mr. Deen and Mr. Church have contended that since we have Dr. McClure here, who represents the State Department, that we ought to call Dr. McClure, although Dr. McClure is down on our program and his testimony will be taken at the proper time, and when we want his testimony, as well as others from the State Department, anyone that we may want to interrogate regarding many things put into this bill, the influences behind it, and so forth. But the motion has just been made that we should depart from that program, and I would like to hear from you in the matter. Mr. LANHAM. A motion to do what? The CHAIRMAN. To discharge Mr. Baldwin as the next witness and have Mr. McClure give his testimony next. Mr. LANHAM. Mr. Chairman Mr. CHURCH. Mr. Chairman, I made the motion, Mr. Lanham, and the reason I made it was this: Yesterday we tried to go into execu |