Mr. HARTNETT. We set up a color chart with the series from grays up into the colors and each electrical circuit in the camera has to be properly adjusted. Mr. MICHEL. Do you have to do that every day? Mr. HARTNETT. Yes, sir. Mr. MICHEL. You say you don't know why the lights go out of focus every two weeks. Does that happen in a commercial studio, too? Mr. HARTNETT. No, sir. We have a unique problem. Our lights are set up so as not to upset the decor of the room. We had to build special fixtures in the attic and the heating and air conditioning is in the attic chamber and we feel it is the vibration that causes those lights to go out. All it has to do is go out one-eighth of an inch and it will throw it out three feet by the time it hits the well or the Speaker's rostrum or the majority and minority tables. There is an awful lot of work associated with television coverage. It is not a simple project. It takes good, qualified people and a lot of work, believe me. Mr. COLLEY. Mr. Chairman, I would like to put in the record the table of the Clerk's appropriations by various years shown on page 14 of the statement. [The information follows:] APPROPRIATIONS, ACTUAL EXPENDITURES, UNEXPENDED BALANCES Mr. BENJAMIN. Ray, when do you get your annual reports in from all your agencies? Mr. COLLEY. We got most of them in about mid-January. Mr. BENJAMIN. When you get those in, make sure that we get a copy of them. Mr. COLLEY. The entire collection for 1979 is in that notebook. Mr. BENJAMIN. Yes. It is difficult to examine it now. Mr. COLLEY. We got a couple of late ones. You would like to have them in advance of the hearing? Mr. BENJAMIN. Absolutely. That is exactly what I am saying. Are there any other questions on the Recording Studio? ADDITIONAL POSITIONS Mr. MICHEL. You are asking for what, three additional people? Mr. HARTNETT. We have been given three additional positions. Mr. COLLEY. And they are annualized in the fiscal year 1980 request, Mr. Michel. Mr. MICHEL. That is due to what, increased business? Mr. HARTNETT. Increased business and more than anything just a little more relief for the engineering people who are not seeing their families as much as we would like. They are spending just too much time in TV control with the electronic problems we are having with the system. CHARGES TO MAKE STUDIO SELF SUPPORTING Mr. BENJAMIN. In the event that you were to charge, besides the operating costs of your studios, the salaries of the studio for the services rendered for the 435 Members that you serve, how much would that add to the cost of a video tape? Mr. HARTNETT. I think the rates would go up 135 percent to cover total operating costs and salaries. Mr. BENJAMIN. That is for video tape, film? Mr. HARTNETT. That is correct. We looked at that at one time. Someone asked us if we can do less than official work which we said no, we could not, but if there was a way to do it, to include salaries where perhaps we can do it and it would be legal, et cetera, what would your rates be? The schedule we came up with was about 135 percent more than we have right now. Mr. BENJAMIN. If it went up 135 percent, how would it compare to normal commercial costs? Mr. HARTNETT. It would still be much lower. For instance, we charge $35 for 20 minute block time in the video studio. That includes two cameras, a director and an audio man. If you were to go out to a recording house here in this area, that same facility for a 20 minute recording would be around $400. EFFECT OF INCREASE ON USAGE Mr. MICHEL. If we were to raise the rates 135 percent to break even, do you have any indication whether that would be an inhibition on the part of the Members to use the studio? Mr. HARTNETT. I think it would, sir, yes, sir. I think if we raised our rates materially, we would have less usage of the studio. Mr. BENJAMIN. Would that reduce the cost, then, per segment of film or increase the cost? If you had less usage, obviously there would be less cameras and recording equipment and personnel. Mr. HARTNETT. We could not have less equipment because we have to have a balanced facility. Mr. BENJAMIN. How about less personnel? Mr. HARTNETT. Less personnel, yes. Mr. BENJAMIN. Have you done any projection as to what the trend might be if it were increased? Mr. HARTNETT. No, sir, we have not. Mr. MICHEL. Is that the House Administration Committee that determines those rates? Mr. BENJAMIN. It is a Special Committee on the House Recording Studio, chaired by Congressman Charlie Rose of North Carolina. Mr. MICHEL. It is kind of like Peter robbing Paul. If you raise the rates and the Members are reimbursed through their office account, supposedly you could expect a request that the office ac count or Members account for that reimbursement will be increased. But what I am saying is that overall there would be an inhibition on the part of Members or some restraint on their using it just carte blanche if we were charging the going rate. Mr. BENJAMIN. Some of those of us who are less photogenic don't use it at all. Are there any other questions? Mr. SMITH. Maybe you don't know the answer to this, but the instances I know of it being used are largely the news media interviewing the Members of a State delegation. Is that a large use of this? Mr. HARTNETT. Mr. Smith, I would say the largest use is a Member coming down giving a straight pitch of what he has done this week or this month and a program of five minutes in length or less. That is the largest use. We do have members of the press come in and interview Members from their district. We have Members who bring in guests such as Cabinet Members, the Vice President. We have some of that type of programming. Mr. SMITH. The only instance of which I have personal knowledge is of course, Iowa, where the press comes in and interviews various Members of the delegation and they take the film and go home and then they reimburse us. But it has to go through our account. Is that by law or by your rules or what? Mr. HARTNETT. Well, if they pay for your time in the studio, we can accept the check directly from them with your endorsement. That is House Recording Studio rules. Mr. SMITH. Is there a substantial amount of time used that way? Mr. HARTNETT. Not really, very small. REPORTING OF HEARINGS Mr. BENJAMIN. Last year you indicated that the Committee on House Administration, using the General Accounting Office to assist them, was studying the cost benefit of using permanent hearing reporters vis-a-vis commercial reporting firms. What is the result of that study? Mr. COLLEY. I would like to, if I may, ask Ben Guthrie who supervises the Official Reporters to Committees and Debates as one of our staff to take that question. Mr. GUTHRIE. Mr. Chairman, we have not finished that particular study, but if I can give you a little background on the Official Reporters and the Corps and our ATEX system that was installed in our Corps office back in 1977: Our ATEX system on capturing key strokes was installed from the GPO with the House of Representatives on a long-range project some four to five years ago on the cost savings of setting the hearings in type at the Government Printing Office. It is a twofold or threefold thing. There is a cost savings feature, a cost avoidance of $13.48 per page in 1977 and a cost avoidance of $21 per page in 1980. The public printer testified last year that during the first year of the ATEX system (1977) there was a $2.4 million savings for the cost of hearings being printed at the GPO. In 1979 there was a $3.2 million savings using our ATEX system on House hearings to the GPO. This is by using a mag tape. We want to thank Mr. Lombard for his cooperation in having all the subcommittees of the Appropriations Committee use of the ATEX mag tape in 1979. There is a time savings on receiving your printed hearings using this system. There is a time savings to the chief clerks of the committee, using the ATEX, with a table of contents and a list of witnesses given at the end of the tape. The Corps has only been under the Clerk of the House since 1978. House Resolution 959 of the 95th Congress placed the Corps under the Clerk. The Corps has increased hearing transcript production since 1977. There was a 20 percent increase in the total number of transcript pages in 1978 and 1979. So the effectiveness of the Corps has been improved due to many things, the ATEX system itself, better utilization of committee reporters and improved management. One of the things we have with the Corps is the fact that we do have an in-house body of people, reliability. We have hearings taking place on a moment's notice with some committees. Yesterday we had the Standards of Official Conduct holding a hearing where we were able to supply a Corps reporter immediately. Today we have some 36 hearings going on. Over the year we may go as high as 55 hearings per day. We are covering hearings of some 150 to 155 committees and subcommittees. SIZE OF CORPS Mr. BENJAMIN. When you say Corps, how many are you talking about? Mr. GUTHRIE. Ten reporters. Mr. BENJAMIN. There are 10 reporters to the committees, right? Mr. GUTHRIE. Yes, sir. Mr. BENJAMIN. Then you have 7 reporters of debate besides the chief reporter; is that correct? Mr. GUTHRIE. The 7 would be with one additional, the chief reporter. Mr. BENJAMIN. So it is 18 altogether? Mr. GUTHRIE. Yes. Mr. BENJAMIN. The chief reporter is also the one that deals with the stenographic or shorthand process? Mr. GUTHRIE. That is correct. Mr. BENJAMIN. You indicate that the study is still ongoing? Mr. GUTHRIE. It is still ongoing. We leased last year a Baron system on computer-aided transcription. That is still under study. We have not made any determination on that. COMMERCIAL REPORTERS Mr. BENJAMIN. Well, Ben, in responding to my question which was what is the result of your study, you immediately referred to the use of the ATEX system. You are not in any way indicating that if we used a commercial reporter, that the commercial reporter could not use the ATEX system? Mr. GUTHRIE. No, sir, but it is through the use of the House having an ATEX system that we are trying to encourage the outside reporting firms to furnish a mag tape to the House. Mr. BENJAMIN. Have you achieved that? Mr. GUTHRIE. We have not achieved it in total. Both House and Senate are doing quite a bit of arm twisting on trying to encourage the outside companies. We are paying them $1 per page. The General Accounting Office recommended and both the Senate and the House have adopted a policy of paying the outside reporting firm $1 per page in additional cost for the furnishing of a mag tape. Mr. BENJAMIN. What is the cost of our outside reporting? What is the cost to the House per year? Mr. GUTHRIE. The present costs would be back under stenographic hearings. It is some $1.5 million. Mr. Lawler has it in the statement. Mr. BENJAMIN. How much of the debate and committee work is covered by outside reporters? Mr. GUTHRIE. Approximately two-thirds. Mr. BENJAMIN. So for two-thirds you pay $1.5 million. What do we pay in terms of operating costs and salaries for the other onethird? Mr. GUTHRIE. Approximately $700,000. REPORTING STUDY INCOMPLETE Mr. BENJAMIN. When will you have a final result of your study? Mr. GUTHRIE. We hope to make a determination on the Baron system some time in April. That is a computer-aided transcription in which we are hoping to be able to get additional pages by the use of a tape off the stenographic machine. Mr. BENJAMIN. Your study originally was to determine the relative cost of Corps reporters versus commercial reporters. You somehow have gotten into ATEX and Baron. When will we find out the relative merits, particularly the economic merits, of using Corps versus commercial reporters or any combination of the two? Mr. GUTHRIE. We will know a little more after making a determination on the Baron system some time in April. We have not had the system in long enough to get the results from the computeraided transcription system yet. Mr. BENJAMIN. Is the GAO still participating in that study? Mr. GUTHRIE. They participated in the study in 1977. That was done under the Committee on House Administration. Mr. BENJAMIN. On page 24 of the subcommittee print it indicates that 10 persons are employed to report committee hearings. Are there any other support staff, that is, secretaries and other clerical? Mr. GUTHRIE. There is no secretarial position. There are 10 transcribers and 2 clerks. Mr. BENJAMIN. When you gave me that $700,000 figure-- |