General BAKER. Yes, sir. Mr. STARNES. What would be the cost of a plant such as you have in mind? General BAKER. I think it would cost, on the basis of values at the time the estimate was made, approximately $14,000,000. Due to general increased costs, it may exceed that at the present time. Mr. STARNES. Will you set out for the record for us the general requirements as to a suitable site and the size which you think is desirable? General BAKER. I will be glad to do that. (The information requested follows:) The requirements for a suitable site for a chemical warfare manufacturing arsenal would include the following factors: (a) Strategic location. This will necessitate a location somewhere within the interior of the United States, and in general within an area at least 200 miles from our borders. The area should be reasonably level and of low cost. Further, it should be in proximity to navigable waterways. (b) Transportation. Any lo ation should be assured of an ample rail net and the proximity of inland water transportation. (c) Labor.-The question of an adequate labor market should be considered with any site selected, although it is true that labor usually will follow employment. (d) Raw materials. The availability of the necessary raw materials in the vicinity of the site selected is a decided advantage, or at least they should be readily available by rail and water transport. (e) Power.-Reliable and adequate source of electric power, together with cost and service, should be considered. (f) Water.-An adequate water supply should be assured. (g) Living conditions.-The question of whether or not there is available housing in the vicinity to take care of the large number of employees that would be necessary for a manufacturing arsenal under consideration, together with the necessary sanitary and health conditions, should be considered. In connection with the size of a new chemical warfare manufacturing arsenal, I am of the opinion that it would be desirable to have an arsenal of not less than 5,000 acres in extent to a maximum of 80,000 acres. The increased size would depend on the amount of proofing that would be necessary in connection with the operations of the arsenal, although this proofing problem may be cared for at other locations. Mr. SNYDER. You are manufacturing now, are you not, General, certain articles at the Edgewood Arsenal? General BAKER. Yes, sir. Mr. LUDLOW. General Baker, has there been so far use made of gas in the war? General BAKER. No; there has not been. There have been rumors that it has been used on several occasions, but those rumors have not been authenticated, have not been verified. GAS MASKS FOR HORSES Mr. COLLINS. How many horses, General, are you going to provide masks for? General BAKER. Seventy-two thousand three hundred and ninety. Mr. COLLINS. Have you that many in the Army now? General BAKER. I do not know whether they have that many in the Army, under the present program, that is the number for which we are directed to prepare. Mr. COLLINS. Does that mean that the War Department is going to revert back to horse drawn transportation rather than gasoline motors? General BAKER. I do not know to what extent the War Department plans to use horses. Mr. SNYDER. If you provide these masks now would they be good 40 or 50 years from now? General BAKER. Yes; we think so. They are stored under conditions which we believe will preserve their effectiveness. Mr. COLLINS. General, have you in contemplation any other clothing for horses besides these masks? General BAKER. No, sir. Mr. COLLINS. Well, I understand that mustard gas attacks something besides the mucous membrane of the animal. General BAKER. There has been under development a boot for horses. Mr. COLLINS. A horse boot? General BAKER. Yes. Mr. COLLINS. What about overcoats? General BAKER. They have not developed that as yet. If the Quartermaster Corps develops an overcoat that they want us to prepare for protective purposes Mr. COLLINS. Do you not think that in any expeditionary force to Europe that we should provide these items for the horses that are going overseas? General BAKER. I think that any expeditionary force should be provided with all possible protective means. Mr. COLLINS. I understand that, but for the life of me I do not know how we would send horses to Europe. General BAKER. If they want to send the force over and call on us for the protective equipment, that is our job. Mr. WOODRUM. This is not to be used entirely for an expeditionary force? General BAKER. No. Mr. WOODRUM. But in case we are attacked in this country. General BAKER. If is for defensive purposes regardless of where actually used. Mr. WOODRUM. How long would it take you to get the 107,000? Mr. WOODRUM. General, what is the position of the General Staff; does it want this or not? General MOORE. I asked the Chief of Cavalry if he wanted it and he said he did. Mr. WOODRUM. Well, I am asking the position of the General Staff. General MOORE. There is a difference of opinion in the General Staff concerning this item. My idea was that it is not important now. Mr. WOODRUM. Is there anything in here for plant expansion, building expansion for this purpose? General BAKER. No. General MOORE. One hundred and ten thousand dollars, in connection with the Edgewood plant. General BAKER. We have an item to increase the facilities and the plant there. Mr. TABER. That is not in this item? General BAKER. No; that is not in here. 300871-41--17 Mr. POWERS. General Moore, as to the testimony we have just had off the record, I want to remark that every one of the Committee on Appropriations appreciates very much the sincerity and frankness of your statement. General BAKER. Mr. Chairman, the point I would like to make in regard to my defending this item which has been referred to by General Moore is that, I only defend it because it is an appropriation item absolutely essential to the protection of the horse which comes to us from the staff, and my only interest is to present the amount as a part of the program as approved by the staff and the Bureau of the Budget. Mr. SNYDER. You are doing your suty. General BAKER. That is what I am trying to do. FRIDAY, MARCH 7, 1941. PROTECTIVE GAS MASKS FOR HORSES STATEMENT OF GENERAL JOHN K. HERR, CHIEF OF CAVALRY Mr. WOODRUM. General Herr, we would like for you to tell us something about this item in the bill for gas masks for horses. The item was discussed yesterday, when you were not here, and we would like to know what you think about it. General HERR. This request for gas masks for horses was based on protection for the horses, and the number of gas masks was based on the number of horses and mules provided in the P. M. P. Mr. TABER. What is that? General HERR. The Protective Mobilization Plan. That is, onemillion-four-hundred-some-odd-thousand in the first army. So, that is the basis of the figure, the number of animals in the Army under the P. M. P. and the first augmentation. Mr. WOODRUM. The number did not disturb us as much as the question of whether they were needed, and if they were going to be needed whether it would be possible, after you found out they were to be needed, to get them. And we would like to have your ideas on that. General HERR. I will say very definitely that they are needed just as much as masks are needed for men; you cannot let the horses suffer while you have an S. P. C. A. Mr. TABER. Do the horses suffer as much as a result of gas as the men? General HERR. Yes; that is a question that came up very recently. Mr. TABER. There is something else about gas that hits the horse where you cannot protect him? General HERR. Yes; they are subject, in the same degree as men from blisters from mustard gas. Mr. TABER. That is because they are not covered in any way. General HERR. Yes; but the Chemical Warfare Service is experimenting with a preparation designed to counteract that to a great extent. Mr. TABER. How many horses to you have in the Army now? General HERR. I can only speak for the Cavalry. Mr. POWERS. You are only defending the number of gas masks for cavalry horses? General HERR. Yes. Mr. POWERS. The figures you have in the estimate only includes horses in the Cavalry; for gas masks? General HERR. The figures I have here--you want the number for all horses? Mr. TABER. At the present time. General HERR. I have the figures here for the present plan. General HERR. Under the present set-up we now have in the Army 38,837 horses and 6,592 mules, making a total of 45,429 animals. Mr. POWERS. That is the horses you now have in the Cavalry? General HERR. No; that is the total. For the Cavalry we have 28,805 horses, and 69 mules in the Philippines. Mr. POWERS. How many gas masks are you asking for for horses? General HERR. The Chemical Warfare fixes the number. Mr. POWERS. But that is on your request, is it not? General HERR. Yes. In the sense that we place in the table of basic allowances one gas mask for each horse, when completely equipped for war. Mr. TABER. How many horses would have any chance of being anywhere where they would need that kind of protection? General HERR. I could not say. Mr. TABER. Well a man in the military service would have a better idea than a civilian. How many in your judgment in that group would have a chance to be at a point where they would need protection? General HERR. If the enemy should go all out for gas I suppose they would all need it. Mr. LUDLOW. In line with Mr. Taber's inquiry, this is purely for defensive purposes, is it not? In other words the gas masks are not being provided in contemplation of any expeditionary force? General HERR. No; not so far as I know. Mr. LUDLOW. General, let me ask you this question then, how long would it take to get these masks under a hurry-up order? General HERR. I do not know. That is a supply matter-see General Baker's testimony of March 6, 1941. Mr. LUDLOW. I think it was testified here that it would require about 5 months. General HERR. General Baker would have to give you that. Mr. LUDLOW. If that is the case why is it necessary to make this appropriation now? There is nothing so urgent; nobody is going to take this country within the next 5 months; that is certain. General HERR. Well, of course, that may be the case with a whole lot of equipment but I think we need to get in final shape, thoroughly equipped. Mr. POWERS. Besides the money asked for in this bill, for this purpose, there is an item of $110,000 for the construction of a plant for the manfacture of these masks? General HERR. Yes? Mr. POWERS. Just how high up on your priority list do you put these masks for horses; how high up would that be on the Cavalry priority? General HERR. It would be on the low priority list because we need other things more. Mr. WOODRUM. General Herr, you said you had all told 45,429 animals as of the present time. General HERR. Yes. For the whole Army. Mr. WOODRUM. What will it be when you finish out the protective plan? General HERR. It would be 72,390. Mr. WOODRUM. Do you expect to get those 72,390 by July 1? Mr. WOODRUM. That is for the 2,000,000 set-up? General HERR. Yes. Mr. SNYDER. That would be in 1942 when you would expect them? General HERR. Yes; that is right. Mr. WOODRUM. In other words, I judge your feeling is that the gas masks for horses is a necessary part of the equipment you ought to have in case they are needed; when they are needed they are needed badly and you ought to have them. General HERR. That is correct. Mr. MAHON. And is it not a fact that if we provide antigas equipment for man and beast, so far as necessary to have it, there is less likelihood of being confronted with gas attack? General HERR. That is very true. Mr. WOODRUM. Thank you very much, General; I think we have got the situation pretty well explained. THURSDAY, MARCH 6, 1941. INFANTRY SCHOOL, FORT BENNING, GA. STATEMENT OF LT. COL. W. F. LEE Mr. WOODRUM. We will take up next the item for the Infantry School, Fort Benning, Ga., as follows [reading]: Infantry school, Fort Benning, Ga.: For Infantry school, Fort Benning, Ga., $15,000. Tell us about this item, Colonel Lee. Colonel LEE. I offer for the record the following statement: Project 2: For all purposes of the appropriation except pay of employees. $15,000 The expansion of the Army and the extended motorization of the Infantry elements thereof have necessitated the expansion of the motor section of the Infantry school from an annual student output of 2,500 to 5,000 in order that sufficient personnel may be trained in the operation and maintenance of military vehicles assigned to the Infantry. This fund is required for the following: Subproject number: (a) Supplies and materials.. 1. Scientific supplies--. 2. Photographic supplies.. 3. Cleaning and toilet supplies.. 4. Mechanics', engineers', and electricians' supplies.. 5. Materials not specifically allocated for use as supplies, equipment, or structures at time of purchase.. $15,000 65 5, 000 1, 415 3, 770 4,750 |