Representative Charles T. Canady Noted that Florida had passed its term limit referendum with 77% voting yes. In general, he supported rules reforms in line with those referendum results: with term limitations on committee chairs and ranking members, committees will follow the "will of people," not the whims of their members or leaders. Observed that committee leaders develop a proprietary interest in and "dominance over a policy area." With permanent committee assignments and leadership, committees become mired in turf battles that are not helpful to policy innovation. Representative John Linder Cites James Madison in "The Federalist" against faction and the spirit of party. Unlimited terms for chairs and ranking members contribute to uncontrolled power. He was the principal sponsor in the Republican Conference of the service limit proposal for ranking members. If such limits were included in House Rules, he could see an end to "uncontrolled power" of committee leaders with the possibility of countering popular demand for general term limits on all legislators. Committee leader term limits would also reduce the power of special interest groups, as they would no longer be guaranteed of a continuing special relationship with committee leaders. Congress needs to be more interested in the future of the Nation, not in perpetuating power. Term limits have become a national priority; without establishing some internal controls on committee leaders, the voters will impose it through referenda against all Members of Congress. Representative Jay C. Kim Among reform areas he endorsed were: committee and staffing reforms; campaign finance reform; and applicability of laws to Congress. Noted that not all new Members support all reform ideas, but most support general goals. In general, he urged reforms that contributed to majority rule with minority protections. Believed there are too many committees and too much policy fragmentation. "How can the Public Works Committee consider comprehensive infrastructure plans for California when it can't legislate on railroads." The Appropriations Committee and its leadership is a small club and too insular. Members should rotate on Appropriations to bring new ideas and new interests. Endorsed efforts to reduce the size of committee staffs ("What do they all do?"). Thought large staffs contributed too much to micromanagement. Supports rules changes to guarantee more time before floor consideration of bills in order to plan amendments and to consider the substance of issues, and changes to limit or ban restrictive rules. On fiscal issues, supported a balanced budget constitutional amendment, line item veto, and a supermajority requirement for tax increases. Endorsed term limits for Members of Congress as equitable in light of the presidential term limit. Questions and Answers Dunn: Praised freshmen Members of both parties for the quality of their suggestions. Can you hold together as a group in favor of reform? Will there be a solid constituency here in favor of reform? Linder: The current system in Congress has removed Members from active participation. To achieve anything, we need to overcome excessive partisanship. We need to reach across the aisle. Excessive, uncritical partisanship is the biggest disappointment he had encountered so far in Congress. [Additional Members submitted statements for the record] [Committee adjourned at 5:15 p.m.] HEARING SUMMARY, FEBRUARY 16, 1993 Four Witnesses: Honorable Abraham A. Ribicoff, Thomas Mann, Norman Chairman Boren commenced the hearing by stating that this would be the last hearing on general reform before moving to specific issues. Commented that the Joint Committee has received much "food for thought" from previous witnesses. Introduced and welcomed the Honorable Abraham A. Ribicoff. Honorable Abraham A. Ribicoff Commended the 1983 Pearson-Ribicoff report on Senate operations to the Joint Committee. Many of the problems that existed then, exist today. Reform is possible; today, unlike in 1983, there is clear public interest in congressional reform. Commented that the Joint Committee should dedicate itself to issues where it is possible to reach bipartisan consensus. Offered the following recommendations: 1. Congress should establish a legislative agenda. 2. Members should be limited in their number of committee and subcommittee assignments. 3. The issue of campaign reform must be addressed. 4. The visibility of public policy debate should be raised. With respect to a legislative agenda, stated that the current process approaches chaos, and that Members serve on too many committees and subcommittees. It is impossible to sit on 10 or more panels and give meaningful attention to the work of committees. Also, there are too many hearings; too much time wasted. A legislative agenda should be established for the House and Senate by the congressional leadership, in consultation with the President, by majority vote of each House. Such proposal is discussed in the 1983 report previously mentioned. It is hard to understand why there would be objection to establishing an agenda. Establishing and following an agenda could avoid late night and Saturday sessions, end of the session rushes, the minority's concern with being surprised, and situations in which Members must vote on complex and controversial legislation with little or no advance notice. Also, there would be less concern over procedural reforms, if an agenda were established. Remarked that if the Joint Committee does nothing more than enable Congress to take hold of its schedule, then it will have made a significant contribution. With respect to the number of assignments, commented that there are too many committees and subcommittees and Members have too many assignments. Abolishing committees and subcommittees is a change the Joint Committee must consider. Much of the concern might be abated by preventing Members from serving on more than a limited number of committees -- with the limits enforced. Observed that proposals dealing with jurisdictional realignments warrant the Committee's attention. With respect to campaign reform legislation, stated that the cost of campaigns has reached obscene proportions. The need to raise tremendous amounts of money for campaigns fuels the notion that special interests run the Congress. Another problem is that the cost of campaigns keeps good people from running for office. Stated that he supported proposals that Congress had passed last year, to limit campaign spending, PAC contributions, and the franking privilege. These ideas should be supported by Congress. Remarked that the negative tone of campaigns was of great concern. Noted that in the past the campaign reform debate has broken down over claims that one side of the other sought unfair advantage through reform, but that in fact there is room for agreement on many issues. With regard to raising the visibility of public policy debates, agreed with Senator Byrd that Congress has ignored its responsibility to inform the public, and has ceased to be a forum for great public policy debates. This is both a House and Senate problem. The public dissatisfaction with Congress in part stems from a lack of understanding of what it does. Discussed the need for increasing the visibility of public policy debates, and for scheduling debates on important issues in prime time so as to reach a wider audience. With a real agenda for Congress, there will be real debate. Questions and Answers Boren: Commented that he was intrigued by his proposals. Stated that there were many common areas of agreement between the parties. Agreed that Members can not serve on too many committees and therefore the number of committees and subcommittees should be limited. Ribicoff: Agreed with the Senator. Boren: Commented that staff size and unnecessary hearings make more work, that there were overlapping jurisdictions, that conference committee sizes were increasing, and that it is difficult for the President to work with a fragmented Congress. Stated that the number of committee assignments needed to be reduced along with the reduction of committees and subcommittees and that jurisdictions needed to be fixed. How, from a political point of view, do we go about this process and achieve success? Should we establish a target number of committees? Ribicoff: Responded that the members of the Joint Committee carried a lot of clout and that Congress will go along with them. Members of Congress realize that there is a low appraisal of Congress from the public who want more from their representatives. Stated that much could be accomplished by bringing a consensus together. Boren: Gave a historical perspective on the number of committees and subcommittees. Stated that it was reasonable to sit down and come up with the figures. Ribicoff: Advised to make sure each Member received one good committee assignment, something that is good for the people back home, so that there would be equality among the Members. Asserted that the staff runs the committee when the Member is overloaded. Lugar: Stated that there is the perception that because the people want so much, members "battle to the death" on every issue. Gave an example from the Senate. Is this what constituents feel we should be doing or is it foolish? Ribicoff: This should be stopped. Voters are savvy and intelligent. The people are unaware of the complexity and importance of the issues and Members should be their teachers. The respect of constituents can be achieved without making a grandstand play for them. Lugar: Commented that in the Senate, working with the President on an agenda would only work if Senators were very thoughtful regarding their use of the Senate's rules. How can Senators be restrained from using the rules to benefit their constituents, so as to make an agenda work? Ribicoff: Anyone who would need to be restrained has a bad attitude and does not deserve to be a Senator. A consensus must be reached. Senators must sit down and talk and work it out. Domenici: Agreed that the number of committee assignments must be lessened, but to just discuss that was not enough. Needed to address the issue of overlapping jurisdiction. |