Remarked that it is the responsibility of both the authorizing and appropriating committees to do oversight. Suggested that programs could sunset if not reauthorized, and that the sunset dates could be staggered. Senator Charles E. Grassley Remarked that in his efforts to get Congress to follow the laws that it passes for all other institutions, he has not made any friends in Congress. President Clinton summed it up nicely in saying that it is wrong for Congress to put requirements on businesses and employers and then exempt themselves. Congress forgets what it is like by being in Government and not on the receiving end of the laws that it passes. Stated that the Senate is now covered by the Civil Rights Act, due to an amendment of his, but that it is still exempt from several other laws of general applicability. The framers certainly did not have this in mind. Also, the citizens of the republic are not willing to tolerate Congress being exempt from the laws it passes. I am happy that the family leave bill includes coverage of the Senate. Noted that there is a Senate task force on congressional coverage, and asked why Congress should not be subject to full judicial review in resolving disputes. If it is better to handle these issues in-house, then this requirement should be imposed on other employers. Regarding the committee system, it is a dilemma that the Members are expected to be generalists but also to be specialists. They must match the expertise of the executive branch, which expertise comes from service on committees. However, Members generally serve on committees as long as they want, which compromises the system of checks and balances. Suggested limiting service to eight years on a particular committee. After four years off the committee, a Member would again be eligible to serve on it. He stated that he had introduced legislation to this effect in the 102nd Congress, but not yet in the 103rd. If term limits come up in Congress, this issue of limiting service on committees to a certain number of years could be discussed at that point. Benefits of rotating committee memberships include that: 1) spending would be reduced, because not as much money would be spent on particular interests, but rather on general, national ones; and 2) Members would get expertise on many issues that they otherwise would not get. With knowledge of more policy issues, Members would become better legislators. Also, with public distrust of Congress, many voters are concerned with term limits in Congress. Term limits on committees will go a long way towards addressing this concern. We will tend to focus more on national rather than on special interests, if we have short committee tenure. He asserted that the nominations and confirmation process is not working. The hearings are too often destructive of the nominee and hearings are repetitive. I have no answers, but we need to bring more order to the process. I will continue to think about these issues and will share ideas with the Committee. Questions and Answers Boren: Have you provided a list of laws that Congress is exempt from? Grassley; I will definitely state in a letter to the Committee which laws Congress is exempt from. In response to a question from Representative Allard, Senator Grassley stated that the speech and debate clause is nothing that we should be concerned about. Dreier: Remarked on the issue of Congress living under the laws it imposes, and asked whether Congress should have to live for one year under a law, then later impose it on other employers? Grassley: Stated that assuming the law is constitutional, then Congress already is living under it. Senator Hank Brown Described how there is very little discussion in committee, and suggested the elimination of proxy voting to correct this problem. Other suggestions to alleviate the problem included getting rid of the overlap among committee sessions and between committee and floor sessions. These would be necessary to make viable prohibiting proxy voting. Suggested limiting members to two committee and subcommittee assignments each, and reducing the number of committees and subcommittees. Suggested establishing two groups of committees -- "A" and "B" -- not based on the present so-called A and B committee groupings. The A committees could meet on Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays, and the B committees could meet on Tuesdays and Thursdays, to virtually eliminate overlap. Every Member could be assigned to one A and one B committee. Eliminating proxy voting would make an enormous difference. Getting people in a room is key to working things out, but this does not happen much now. Asserted that it is very important to go back to non-partisan staff. Probably this can not be done completely, but a certain portion of staff could be nonpartisan. Stated that the categories in the appropriations cycle should correspond to the categories in the budget cycle. This leads to a common language, which is important. Currently separate views are not allowed in the Appropriations Committee, for some reason, but they are allowed in all other committees. No one knows why, although inquiries have been made. Separate views on appropriations measures have merit and should be allowed. Remarked that he has views on term limits, but that the Committee has already heard about this issue. Questions and Answers Boren: Non-partisan staff requires real comity between the ranking member and the committee chair. As Chair of the Intelligence Committee, I hired nonpartisan staff in cooperation with the minority. The Committee was 1000% better than if it had partisan staff. Stated that he wished that amendments would be written out. Remarked that he would gladly give up assignments if it would improve things. Agreed that Members do not sit down and legislate together. He cited one example where this did happen, but it was a rare experience. Domenici: Asked whether part of his frustration is that committees and subcommittees are not doing their work for a variety of reasons. Senator Byrd said that fractured attention is the problem. But what do you see as the effectiveness of committees in the areas of oversight and legislating? Remarked that he does not know of any Member that does not think that the deficit is a disgrace. Congress has not set limits on itself. Congress is unable or unwilling to live within a single budget. There has not been a single year in the past several decades where we have cut spending. Ultimately, it is a conflict between the legislative and executive bodies. Estimates of deficits have always been distinct. Congress and the executive need to use the same estimated if assumptions are to be realistic. Allard: Remarked that the important committees do not allow proxies, and advocated that if committees want to be important they should get rid of proxies. Inquired as to whether there are non-partisan areas where House and Senate duties could be combined, thereby eliminating staff and money. Brown: There could be a core, non-partisan, professional staff. Developing symmetry in House and Senate committees would go a long way to getting the House and Senate to work together, and would help create a non-partisan staff. Observed that our staff is nine times bigger than that of any other country. To some extent, staff have gotten in the way of good legislation. A simple effort to reduce staff would yield results, as would a move towards non-partisan staff. years. Boren: Advocated reducing staff by a minimum of 25% over the next four Dreier: Should we have attendance for committee hearings and meetings printed in the Congressional Record, so that attendance there is as well known as attendance on the floor? Many Members "kill themselves" to attend during votes of the chamber. Brown: Having that information available would be of value. If proxy voting were eliminated, and attendance for voting in committees is made so important, we would need to develop some sort of a schedule of hearings. This would be critical. Dreier: Eliminating proxy voting will get people more focused on the issues of committees. Brown: Agreed. Boren: There will be far fewer committee meetings and unnecessary absences, if a rule eliminating proxy voting is adopted. Forty-one Witnesses: HEARING SUMMARY, FEBRUARY 4, 1993 Representative David Price, Representative C. Christopher Cox, Representative Dick Zimmer, Representative Dana Rohrabacher, Representative Michael N. Castle, Representative Bill Goodling, Representative Ike Skelton, Representative John Edward Porter, Representative Earl Hutto, Representative E. Clay Shaw Jr., Representative Joel Hefley, Representative Jim Bacchus, Representative Dave McCurdy, Representative Porter J. Goss, Representative Patricia Schroeder, Representative Thomas M. Barrett, Representative Dick Swett, Representative David Mann, Representative Jay Dickey, Representative Fred Upton, Representative Romano L. Mazzoli, Representative Scott L. Klug, Representative John A. Boehner, Representative Charles H. Taylor, Representative John T. Doolittle, Representative Jim Nussle, Representative Rick Santorum, Representative Karen Shepherd, Representative Eric D. Fingerhut, Representative Ronald K. Machtley, Representative Jack Quinn, Representative David Mann, Representative Roscoe G. Bartlett, Representative Michael D. Crapo, Representative Paul McHale, Representative Bill Zeliff, Representative Tillie Fowler, Representative Charles T. Canady, Representative John Linder, Representative Jay C. Kim. [The Committee convened at 10:00 a.m.] |