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Mr. TOLLEFSON. Or just for fish?

Mr. LENNON. For territorial waters but with the right to permit those conutries which have historically fished between the 3- and 12mile limits to come in. That is evidently aimed at the two countries that we have in mind that Great Britain and Canada are aiming at. Mr. MORTON. Did Canada provide that historic provision in their extension?

Mr. LENNON. Yes, sir; and so did Great Britain. Actually, across the world there is beginning to be a realization that the so-called 3-mile limit of territorial waters is sort of like the horse and buggy days, is there not? You are charged with the responsibility of protecting our coastline. That is one of the missions of the Coast Guard. What is your basic feeling as to whether or not this country ought to extend its territorial waters beyond the 3-mile limit?

Admiral ROLAND. The problems of law enforcement would, of course, be greatly increased if we did extend to 12 miles simply because of the greater area to cover. There are some pretty good reasons why the U.S. position at the last Conference in this matter did not go for 12 miles. These are reasons which should not be on the record, sir. Mr. LENNON. Reasons that should not be on the record? Admiral ROLAND. Yes, sir.

Mr. LENNON. I yield to you.

Mr. DOWNING. I do not quite understand, Admiral. You mean there are reasons why they do not want to go on record to extend it for 12 miles?

Admiral ROLAND. These are reasons for our position at the last Conference which was to hold to 3 miles.

Mr. DOWNING. If the gentleman will yield further, I have a letter from the Department of State, which certainly is not confidential, giving its position.

it.

Mr. LENNON. I will yield to you if you want to read excerpts from

Mr. DOWNING. It is the position of the U.S. Government that its overall interests as a freight maritime and naval power are best served by the greatest possible freedom of the seas and to this end it favors a narrow breadth of the territorial sea. These matters were thoroughly considered by the United States before its participation in the two Law of the Sea Conferences which were held under United Nations auspices in Geneva in 1958 and 1960. The Conferences were unable to reach agreement on the breadth of the territorial sea, failing which it continues to be the position of this Government that unilateral extensions of the territorial sea are contrary to international law and that it is not obliged to recognize claims to territorial sea in excess of 3 miles. It is the policy of the Government to protest such.

Mr. LENNON. Admiral, is the Coast Guard protecting our fishing rights off the coast of the Central and South American republics when they get within the so-called territorial waters of 200 miles extension?

Admiral ROLAND. Peru is one South American country which has the 200-mile extension; I believe there are others. We do not operate down there.

Mr. LENNON. There were put into the Congressional Record last year 50 instances where American vessels were seized by countries who allegedly claimed that these vessels were in their territorial waters

and in every instance beyond their 3-mile limit, and in many instances the masters of these vessels were fined and in a number of instances the Federal Government had to appropriate money to reimburse the masters of these vessels and the owners of these vessels for the fines. What sort of attitude of patsy-watsy is that that those countries who exercise this jurisdiction, rightly or wrongly, and the Federal Government, the taxpayers of America has to turn around and pay the fines and the forfeitures for these American vessels that are seized in what we say are free and open waters? I assume that these statistics are right. I can give you the ships by name and the masters and the amount of fines imposed. I do not agree with that at all, Mr. Downing, because apparently it looks like now that most of the countries of the world are going to extend their territorial waters to, if not 12, at least 6.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Pelly.

Mr. PELLY. As to what my colleagues said with regard to these 50 instances, I like to refer to the Constitution which specifically provides that our Government shall protect acts of piracy which I consider those 50 cases to be, definite piracy, I think we have failed to comply with the Constitution.

Mr. LENNON. I thank the gentleman for his comments but the thing that concerns me is that this record that I read from reflects the fact that the Federal Government took the taxpayers' money and reimbursed the shipowners who were fined and had their gear and boats seized.

Mr. PELLY. That is an odd way to protect against piracy.

Mr. LENNON. That is apparently the only way we know to protect our national interests through the almighty dollar throughout the world.

Mr. PELLY. In our early history if the United States had paid ransome to the Barbary pirates, I think it might have been protecting our people, but it was not the way our Founding Fathers intended in order to invite respect for our Government.

Mr. LENNON. I commend the gentleman but I recommend that he read Miss May Craig's recent article appearing in U.S. News & World Report.

Mr. TOLLEFSON. Were those bills paid by legislation emanating from this committee?

The CHAIRMAN. No.

Mr. PELLY. Admiral, there are each year many hundreds of American pleasure boats and yachts that travel up to Canada and I assume to other foreign countries' waters and there must be a great many foreign pleasure boats that enter our waters. It would be absolutely essential, would it not, to see that casual fishing under mutual agreement were protected between these nations so that we would not ban Canadian boats from pleasure fishing in our waters lest they retaliate and ban our vessels?

Admiral ROLAND. That would be my view that there should be provision; yes, sir.

Mr. PELLY. Would it be your view that simply adding the words in the title "to prohibit commercial fishing" and later in the language of S. 1988 so that the fishing be described as commercial fishing which it was intended to be prohibited? Would not that clarify the intent of the law?

Admiral ROLAND. Captain Reynolds has just reminded me that the witness from the Interior Department suggested such an amendment. Mr. PELLY. Would you indicate or maybe have inserted in the record the number of foreign pleasure craft that each year have crossed over? With whom do these boats clear? Is it the Customs or the Coast Guard?

Admiral ROLAND. They do not clear with the Coast Guard. They clear with Customs if they enter and the Treasury Department would have a record of the number of vessels.

I would not like to make a promise on these figures but we will see if we can get them. I think we can get a statement at least.

Mr. PELLY. Admiral, I certainly would be happy to have them. I would not want to put you to a great deal of trouble because I do not think it is too important but if there were some statement inserted by you at this point to indicate the number of vessels and the importance of seeing that there was no ban on such vessels for sports fishing, I would be very happy.

Thank you.

(The following information was supplied in response to the above request :)

Hon. HERBERT C. BONNER,

TREASURY DEPARTMENT,

U.S. COAST GUARD, Washington, D.C., March 2, 1964.

Chairman, Committee on Merchant Marine and Fisheries,

House of Representatives,
Washington, D.C.

DEAR MR. CHAIRMAN: At the hearings of your committee on February 25, 1964, Representative Pelly asked for statistics on the number of foreign pleasure craft which enter U.S. waters each year. The Coast Guard does not maintain statistics on this subject, and I suggested to Representative Pelly at the time that the Bureau of Customs might have a record of such vessels.

Since then, I have learned from the Commissioner of Customs that statistics maintained by collectors of customs will not be a means of deriving this information. I am enclosing a copy of a summary statistical table for the fiscal year 1963, which contains statistics on vessels entering and on vessels reporting only. It will be noted that the figures do not show separate totals for foreignflag vessels and vessels of the United States. Additionally, it is impossible to determine from these figures or from the subsidiary reports used to compile these figures how many of these vessels were engaged in trade or were pleasure vessels only.

Another difficulty confronting us in attempting to furnish figures about foreign pleasure vessels arriving in U.S. waters is that those vessels not exceeding 5 net tons which arrive from a contiguous country otherwise than by sea are not required to be reported as vessel arrivals. For that type of craft, customs statistics are maintained only on the number of people aboard the craft.

Additionally, another problem in determining the volume of foreign pleasure vessel activity is that collectors of customs may issue cruising licenses to pleasure vessels from Canada and certain other countries. A vessel which possesses a cruising license may, after its initial arrival and report to customs, proceed without subsequent reporting of the vessel's arrivals and departures, subject only to compliance with applicable laws and regulations for persons and articles aboard those craft.

For the foregoing reasons we are unable to suggest the frequency of foreign pleasure vessel arrivals in territorial waters of the United States. Even if we had that information, we would be unable to suggest how many of those pleasure vessels might have arrived for the purpose of engaging in recreational fishing in our territorial waters.

Sincerely yours,

E. J. ROLAND,

Admiral, U.S. Coast Guard Commandant.

TREASURY DEPARTMENT, BUREAU OF CUSTOMS

Customs transactions by districts, fiscal year 1963-Carriers entering

Vessels entering

Reporting only

Planes arriving

Vehicles entering

Districts

Direct Via

Gov

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