think it is very important that we allow the men at sea, the men who are directly involved in these incidents, to speak before you.

Because of the fact Mr. Cintas for instance did not arrive in San Diego from the vessel Apollo until yesterday morning, he does not have a prepared statement.

This is also true of Mr. Madruga. Mr. Castagnola unforunately was injured on the Antonina C during the voyage and the Antonina C will not be home until tonight, however, Dominic was forced to come back to San Diego for treatment. He was aboard the vessel at the time of the seizure. He also does not have a prepared statement.

I would like first to indicate to the committee that we do have a chart here on my left that shows the global impact of the 200 mile territorial sea, and behind it one that indicates the location of the seizures.

Mr. DINGELL. The Chair does note that our good friend and colleague, Mr. Wilson, had, I believe, copies of that available for inclusion in the record and the Chair assumes you would like to have the first chart and the second chart which you have alluded to inserted in the record at some point.

The Chair will therefore direct the staff if there is no objection to see to it that the charts referred to are appropriately inserted into the record.

Mr. FELANDO. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

The two charts that are indicated here, one is a chart that shows the coastline from Columbia to Peru and there are presently 17 red dots on that chart indicating the positions of the seizures of the vessels off that coast.

Just after this committee started its hearings, I received confirmation of the fact that the John F. Kennedy was seized by an Ecuadoran patrol vessel approximately 100 miles west of Point Elena.

We have no other information except the confirmation of the seizure and the belief that the vessel is headed toward Salinas, Ecuador.

Mr. DINGELL. The Chair will afford you the opportunity to correct the document to reflect this seizure at such time later so that it will be current.

Mr. FELANDO. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

Now I would like to turn the microphone over to Capt. Manuel Cintas of the Apollo. He will describe to you the strafing incident that occurred to him in mid-January; the subsequent seizure of the Apollo; the entry into port into Salinas and the seizing procedure. Also after leaving port and after paying a fine further harassment of the Apollo by Ecuadoran warships, and also the other incident that might provide additional information with regards to the strafing incident.

I might say this, that especially Captain Cintas and Mr. Madruga have had unfortunately quite a bit of experience in the seizure episode going back to a very serious situation in 1963 off Ecuador.

Now Manuel, if you could more or less tell the committee exactly what happened to the Apollo on its maiden trip in 1971.

Mr. CINTAS. You have already briefly given the fact that we encountered a seizure, and so forth, and not to mention many, many others that we have had in the past.

Mr. DINGELL. Mr. Cintas, for purposes of the record would you give us your full address, please?

Mr. CINTAS. Manuel R. Cintas, 1469 Canta Barbara Street, San Diego, Calif., captain of the Apollo.

This was the maiden voyage for the Apollo. It is the largest tuna vessel afloat and quite a prize for the Ecuadorans.

It is a fact that the Apollo was searched out for about a week previous to this encounter of the seizure.

About 6 or 7 days before the seizure this happened about January the 7th of this year-the Apollo was in a set, the net was in the water, dead in the water, we weren't moving. We had two aircraft recognized by my chief engineer as an ex-U.S. Hellcat.

They were camouflaged with no insignia. At this time I was in the crow's nest which stands about 35 feet off the water and the crew was on deck and the operation of the net in putting the fish on board. We were circled by these two aircraft flying at an altitude of about 5,000 feet at this time when we were sighted or rather sighted them.

They circled us three or four times and then came down to about 1,000 feet. They commenced firing off our starboard bow with the first burst and the second burst on the second time around they fired about 600 feet off our bow.

At that time I didn't recognize what country the aircraft belonged to as, like I say, there was no insignia on them. This was observed with binoculars. I looked for it with binoculars. I could see the pilot and one crew who was the gunner on the aircraft.

This was reported to Mr. Madruga while the incident was going on and it was almost a blow-by-blow description.

There were other vessels in the area; namely the MV Hornet who also encountered the same thing as we did. This was verified by verbal transmission with Capt. Manuel Falante of the Hornet.

Mr. DINGELL. Was your vessel struck by this strafing?

Mr. CINTAS. No, it was not. It was close enough.

Mr. Chairman, to get a crazy gunner on one of these airplanes, I think you are asking for a great deal of trouble here and the endangering of my crew whereas this aircraft may not just hit where he wants to fire. He wasn't firing to hit us of course, but the fact was he fired very, very close to the Apollo.

That day there was no further incident but thereafter there was patrol boats in the area, but because of the speed of the Apollo and numerous things, we could see them a lot sooner than they could see us and we could keep away from them to some extent.

The word was out that they were specifically looking for us. It was in the newspapers in Ecuador. I get this information from people that I know there that they were actually looking for the Apollo. I know that even on the day of the seizure that the vessels were asked to catch the Apollo as it was quite a prize obviously because of the fine involved. It amounted to about $92,000.

We were fortunate enough to stay away from the patrol boats for about a week until the day of the seizure.

Now to explain the seizure it was very simple. The patrol was sighted about 7 o'clock in the morning and we avoided them until about 11:30 that morning. They finally spotted the name of the Apollo and they came after us.

The distance was about 4 miles apart and they were at our stern, and they started flashing their signal light. We completely ignored

them, understand our position, the closest land was about 50 or 60 miles away.

Mr. DINGELL. How close were you to Ecuador at this time?

Mr. CINTAS. Ecuador was just about 60 miles away. The closest land was about 50 miles away.

Mr. DINGELL. What was the closest point you were to Ecuador at the time these series of events transpired?

Mr. CINTAS. Our position was about 3° south. If you can see the Gulf De Guayaquil, it is right in the center.

So the closest land would be about-50 to 60 miles away. This was the day of the seizure.

The patrol boat was at our stern about a 4-mile distance and he started flashing and we completely disregarded the flashing and he commenced firing. We, in turn, turned the vessel 180° and headed for the patrol boat and Mr. Madruga-we were in communication with Mr. Madruga by ship to shore with the transmitter at the American Tuna Boat Association. So I told him at that time we were pretty sure of being seized and of course we were.

They boarded the Apollo and we were treated fairly good. We were boarded by three officers and four seamen. It was simply the first thing they did was to put a watch on your radio, your transmitter, you cannot communicate any longer after that. It was very important that we communicate before the seizure and it was done, so that everyone would know we were seized.

This happened at 11:30 in the morning and, of course, being familiar with seizures, the main thing is to get it over with, get taken in and get it over with and pay your fine and get out of there and go about your business.

This is not the practice anymore. They like to take in one, two, or three or even four or five at a time if they can. They have enough personnel aboard these patrol boats where they can put two, three, or four guards on each one and just make the rounds and get as many as they can at one time.

From 11:30 in the morning until 6 o'clock at night we couldn't do anything but wait until they went around and picked up any vessel without a permit.

It so happened at that time there was another vessel around that had no permit so it was a big merry-go-round and finally I think Dominic was obvious to the seizure. At the time his boat was 10 or 12 miles away and could see everything. We can see 10 or 12 miles away through the crow's nest, and so on.

So they finally took us in at 6 o'clock that evening. We arrived in Salinas, Ecuador, at about 2300, 11 o'clock, that night.

At midnight I was invited to go aboard the patrol boat and sign statements verifying positions and this was done. Nothing further that night until 11 o'clock the following morning and then we were boarded by perhaps 15 different officials including Mr. Zapateir, the attorney for the Ecuadoran Government, and numerous other officials. They remained on board for about 2 hours taking notes of our log books and charts and statements were taken and signed. We in turn all went into the Port of Salinas on the beach-the formalities took all that afternoon until about 11 o'clock the next night-it was simply signing and verifications, and so forth, and released.

The very next day at 7 o'clock in the morning we were on the fishing grounds. We were approached by the patrol boat President Alfaro, a ex-U.S. DD.

The Alfaro flashed his signal at us and this was about 5 miles, and we turned around and headed for them so we could get this business of recognition over with. I approached within 1,000 yards of the Alfaro knowing very well that he could see my name and knowing very well we were seized and fined the previous day.

Mr. DINGELL. What was the amount of the fine?

Mr. CINTAS. $92,000 or thereabouts. It hasn't actually been determined, but it is supposed to be $89.000 with all the fringes of a couple thousand-$2,000 or $3,000 for miscellaneous stamps and come-shaw and what not, will come to about $92,000.

Mr. DINGELL. My good friend Mr. Mailliard asked how far you were off the second time this incident took place? Mr. CINTAS. The same position as the seizure.

Mr. DINGELL. About 50 miles?

Mr. CINTAS. Yes; this was the following day-like perhaps 10 hours after release. The President Alfaro could certainly see my name or could certainly see the name of the vessel Apollo as it is very large letters. He was certainly close enough so he could recognize the name. I in turn went about my business and he commenced firing again. Mr. DINGELL. What size weapon was he firing?

Mr. CINTAS. I believe it was a 3 inch-whatever a DD takes. I don't know if it is a 3 or 5 inch but I think they are 3 inches.

Mr. DINGELL. When you talked about the seizing vessel a minute. ago you said a DE and now you are saying a DD?

Mr. CINTAS. A DE-a destroyer escort.

When he commenced firing I turned the Apollo toward him again. You can imagine how I felt about this time.

I approached within 50 feet and I asked him in Spanish-I speak Spanish very well-what he wanted, and he said lower your boat, and I refused to lower my boat. I threatened to ram him-actually threatened to ram him if he didn't leave me alone. He in turn lowered his boat, a whaleboat, and there were three officers and four seamen it it. They came aboard the Apollo without a word being spoken, the officers and the seamen, aboard the Apollo and walked the vessel for about 15 or 20 minutes just literally making themselves at home and walked off the vessel without a word spoken.

As they were getting off the vessel my first mate, Mr. Ferrano, asked them what was their business and they claimed they were looking for a seaman on board that was taking pictures of the Alfaro at the time we had approached them. That was their excuse and that is all there was to it. They didn't locate the seaman or the camera or anything else.

That was about the extent of our experience in January of 1971.

Now, of course, the encounter with the aircraft was about 6 or 7 days before the seizure, so everyone denied the aircraft and the shooting of the aircraft.

On the comments and questions asked in Salinas about our seizure, we were asked whether we identified the aircraft as Ecuadoran. I denied this because it was the truth. I didn't know what kind of aircraft they were.

They got statements from four or five of the crew on the Apollo asking if they recognized the flag of the particular aircraft. At this time they denied the shooting and the aircraft as belonging to Ecuador. So this was done.

Mr. WILSON. Mr. Chairman, I wonder if we might clarify the exact type of aircraft? There seems to be some discrepancy.

I understand from previous testimony to the effect they were T-38's. I think it is very important for the record that we get a clarification of the type of aircraft that did this initial harassment.

Mr. CINTAS. Let's remember that there were two involved, Congressman Wilson. My chief engineer was in a squadron during the war and he recognized them as Grumman Hellcats.

Mr. WILSON. They are single-seaters.

Mr. CINTAS. I don't know-or a Bearcat. He said that or a Hellcata later model.

He coincidentally had a picture of the squadron and the aircraft, of course, can be deceiving, but it looked very much like the one that fired on us. He just said it was a Hellcat or a Bearcat anyway.

The fact remains they were United States. There is no doubt about the planes. You don't like to make statements unless you know for sure, but my boy got hurt seriously here just recently, and we had the help of air-sea rescue out of Balboa and myself and my boy were taken into Salinas, Ecuador, for medical attention in Salinas, Ecuador.

The only comment is that we were treated very well, but the aircraft-my boy was taken right to the clinic there at the Ecuadorean airport-they have a clinic there-and the air-sea landed at 6:30 in the morning and there was quite a bit of activity going on at the airport all the time.

As we went by the one hangar there of the aircraft, the doors were open and I sighted the two planes the two prop-driven planes. They were very obviously them because they were the larger ones in there. The rest of them were small aircraft-single-engine Piper-type aircraft-but they were the two camouflaged aircraft that fired upon the Apollo. I saw it. I must mention that because they were there. That is about the extent of it.

Mr. FELANDO. I would like to have Ed Madruga make just a few comments.

Mr. MADRUGA. Mr. Chairman and members of your committee, my name is Edward Madruga, and I live at 1635 Plum Street, San Diego. I am the manager of the vessel Apollo.

The Apollo like Manuel stated, is a brandnew vessel and cost $3 million to build and was on its maiden voyage. As Manual said, this must have been quite a prize to the Ecuadoreans.

Anyway, I was in contact with Manuel. He called me just prior to the seizure-it was on a Sunday on the 17th-and he called me by land phone and I think he said that in a few minutes I am going to be captured. I said don't offer any resistance, go ahead and get yourself caught and get it over with because it is my understanding they are going to take you in and fine you and we don't want anybody to get hurt.

I said keep this thing on and we will have a running blow of this thing so I can report to our people here in the States.