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great interest in the matter of governmental reorganization, in which this is merely one part, and in the years that I have given of my life to talking with people of America on these subjects I find that next to the war itself at the moment this is the most interesting subject to them of a political nature. And I have had occasion to make several speeches. The distinguished chairman and I spoke over the same national radio program in New York last winter on a subject related to this and I had correspondence from all over the country. May I suggest that we give, as citizens and as members of the legislative branch, a great deal more thought to the subject of the three divisions of

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I am not going to make a speech. My 1-hour speech is printed in the American Bar Association Journal of February. It has received some favorable comment in every State of the Union and has been reprinted and scattered broadcast. The basic thought that impressed people was this, that the Congress is the legislative branch of our Government—it is the one elected by the people—it is the one the people must rely on and we do not any longer want Congress to set up bureaus and commissions and say to them: "We recognize there is a great problem in this particular field. We have not the time to solve this problem as we did in the early days of this Republic; we are going merely to set up a commission of some kind and give you full powers, and you endeavor to solve that problem.” The people of America, insofar as I have been able to determine, desire that the Congress set up its own agencies. The appropriation for Congress is a mere pittance. I have gone about this country pointing out that your appropriation for the current year was only $13,000,000 for salaries and expenses10 cents a head for all the people of America. You did not know, I suppose, that you had a spokesman in the president of the American Bar Association this year urging and telling the people that Congress must be given more funds; yes, salary, too—I am for that. But you have to set up an establishment here sufficient to run a nation of 136,000,000 people and if it costs the people of America $1 a head to run thé congressional establishment, Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, the people are willing to have it done.

When I read that you have an Office of Legislative Counsel with an appropriation of $82,000 to help you draft your bills, I personally feel you should have a staff adequate and equal to that of any department of the Government. I say that is ridiculous, because this is the department of Government that represents the people of America.

You see, it would be easy to get me started on that, and I will merely stop the statement where I began. In this paper I have submitted that this is a step in the right direction.

The CHAIRMAN. Before you take your seat, I want personally to express my appreciation to you as president of the American Bar Association this year, and I see another very prominent man over there who has been doing the same thing; that is, while you were making these speeches, you also have been telling the people they have to take back in the States and small communities some of these powers concentrated here so that we can operate this country under laws passed by Congress, and directives.

Mr. SIMMONS. That is right.

The CHAIRMAN. I have been saying for a good while you are either going to have to do that or you are going to have to go ahead and establish these great organizations of considerable size around Members of Congress and wind up with 500 or 600 other bureaus, and the Congressman will be in the center of it and he won't know much about what the folks are doing under it.

Mr. SIMMONS. I agree with you and will be glad at some time to discuss that with you over a national radio chain.

STATEMENT OF C. A. MILLER, WASHINGTON, D. C., CHAIRMAN,

AMERICAN BAR ASSOCIATION COMMITTEE ON ADMINISTRATIVE LAW FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA

Mr. MILLER. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of the committee, as Mr. McFarland said, I am going to take up where the president of the American Bar Association left off.

The CHAIRMAN. I believe it would be a good idea for you to identify yourself, first.

Mr. MILLER. My name is C. A. Miller; my office is 1120 Tower Building, Washington, D. C. By way of identification and some qualification, perhaps I should say at the present time I am vice president and general counsel of the American Short Line Railroad Association. I mean by that that is the source from which I obtain my compensation.

I am here as the chairman of the American Bar Association committee on administrative law for the District of Columbia.

I have been, as the president of the American Bar Association said, a past president or am a past president of the Association of Inter state Commerce Commission Practitioners. I was a member of the committee that cooperated with the Interstate Commerce Commission's committee in revising the general rules of practice of the Interstate Commerce Commission in 1941 and 1942; I was also a member of the committee that revised the rules of practice of the Public Utilities Commission of the District of Columbia which were adopted in 1942.

So far as my experience is concerned, I should say, in the field of administrative law, it began about 25 years ago when I became a member of Mr. Beaman's staff in the office of what now is the Legislative Counsel Service. Mr. Beaman and Mr. Law, with whom most of you gentlemen are acquainted, were my original preceptors and instructors in the field of administrative law. Since that time, however, my experience has been mostly as a practitioner before the administrative agencies of the Government specializing in particular before the Interstate Commerce Commission.

In making this statement, I think I should say to you gentlemen I appear here solely as the representative of the American Bar Association, although our own Short Line Association has endorsed and is in favor of an administrative law bill.

Your committee has before it, Mr. Chairman, six bills; namely, H. R. 184, the so-called Celler bíll; H. R. 339 and H. R. 1117, identical bills, which we style the Smith-Cravens bill; H. R. 1203, the Sumners bill, which is generally known throughhout the country as the McCarran-Sumners bill; H. R. 1206, the Walter bill, and H. R.

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I assume, Mr. Chairman, it is the purpose and intent of the chairman to have these bills made a part of the record of this hearing?

The CHAIRMAN, I do not know as to whether we will make them a part of the record or not, but I believe it would be helpful if would discuss the general subject matter as distinguished, at this time, from discussing the provisions of the particular bills. (The bills appear in the appendix.)

Mr. MILLER. That is what I propose to do. I may say to you, Mr. Chairman, in such preparation as we could make for this hearing, our idea was it should be as flexible as it could be made so as to meet the desires of the committee to the extent possible; at the same time to be as helpful to the committee as possible without being too lengthy in our presentation. For that reason, I have had prepared and there is before each of you gentlemen a mimeographed document captioned “Summary of salient features of administrative procedure bills pending before the Committee on the Judiciary, House of Representatives, United States.". In the summary statement I take up each of the bills in their numerical order and very briefly summarize what we consider to be the salient features of those bills.

A very cursory examination of that statement will indicate to you gentlemen that, by and large, the bills cover the same general territory. There are differences in the details of them and in the approach, but I believe no good purpose would be served by my going into any elaborate description of the salient features of these various bills at this time.

The CHAIRMAN. I think you are right.

Mr. MILLER. I think the document presented to you will serve the purpose of shortening the hearing as much as possible. The chairman can, of course, have that statement incorporated in the record if he wishes; or, if not, as may suit the convenience of the committee.

The CHAIRMAN. We will be very glad to incorporate that in the record, Mr. Miller.

(The matter above referred to is as follows:)

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SUMMARY STATEMENT OF SALIENT FEATURES OF ADMINISTRATIVE PROCEDURE BILLS

PENDING BEFORE COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY, HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,
UNITED STATES, JUNE 21, 1945

(H. R. 184, Celler bill; H. R. 339 and H. R. 1117, Smith-Cravens bills; H. R. 1203,

Sumners bill ; H. R. 1206, Walter bill; H. R. 2602, Gwynne bill)

H. R. 184%CELLER BILL

I. DECLARATION OF GENERAL POLICY

1. All administrative authority should be effected by established procedures designed to assure adequate protection of private interests and to effectuate declared policies of Congress.

2. All procedures should be made known to all interested persons.

3. Adjudication should include due notice, opportunity to be heard, and prompt decision.

II. DELEGATION OF AUTHORITY Provision is made for delegation of authority to subordinates.

III. OFFICE OF FEDERAL ADMINISTRATIVE PROCEDURE

1. Director of Federal Administrative Procedure, to be appointed by President, by and with advice and consent of Senate.

The CHAIRMAN. I have been saying for a good while you are either going to have to do that or you are going to have to go ahead and establish these great organizations of considerable size around Members of Congress and wind up with 500 or 600 other bureaus, and the Congressman will be in the center of it and he won't know much about what the folks are doing under it.

Mr. SIMMONS. I agree with you and will be glad at some time to discuss that with you over a national radio chain. STATEMENT OF C. A. MILLER, WASHINGTON, D. C., CHAIRMAN,

AMERICAN BAR ASSOCIATION COMMITTEE ON ADMINISTRATIVE LAW FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA

Mr. MILLER. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of the committee, as Mr. McFarland said, I am going to take up where the president of the American Bar Association left off.

The CHAIRMAN. I believe it would be a good idea for you to identify yourself, first.

Mr. MILLER. My name is C. A. Miller; my office is 1120 Tower Building, Washington, D. Č. By way of identification and some qualification, perhaps I should say at the present time I am vice president and general counsel of the American Short Line Railroad Association. I mean by that that is the source from which I obtain my compensation.

I am here as the chairman of the American Bar Association committee on administrative law for the District of Columbia.

I have been, as the president of the American Bar Association said, a past president or am a past president of the Association of Interstate Commerce Commission Practitioners. I was a member of the committee that cooperated with the Interstate Commerce Commission's committee in revising the general rules of practice of the Interstate Commerce Commission in 1941 and 1942; I was also a member of the committee that revised the rules of practice of the Public Utilities Commission of the District of Columbia which were adopted in 1942.

So far as my experience is concerned, I should say, in the field of administrative law, it began about 25 years ago when I became a member of Mr. Beaman's staff in the office of what now is the Legislative Counsel Service. Mr. Beaman and Mr. Law, with whom most of you gentlemen are acquainted, were my original preceptors and instructors in the field of administrative law. Since that time, however, my experience has been mostly as a practitioner before the administrative agencies of the Government specializing in particular before the Interstate Commerce Commission.

In making this statement, I think I should say to you gentlemen I appear here solely as the representative of the American Bar Association, although our own Short Line Association has endorsed and is in favor of an administrative law bill.

Your committee has before it, Mr. Chairman, six bills; namely, H. R. 184, the so-called Celler bill; H. R. 339 and H. R. 1117, identical bills, which we style the Smith-Cravens bill; H. R. 1203, the Sumners bill, which is generally known throughhout the country as the McCarran-Sumners bill; H. R. 1206, the Walter bill, and H. R.

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I assume, Mr. Chairman, it is the purpose and intent of the chairman to have these bills made a part of the record of this hearing?

Thé CHAIRMAN, I do not know as to whether we will make them a part of the record or not, but I believe it would be helpful if you would discuss the general subject matter as distinguished, at this time, from discussing the provisions of the particular bills. (The bills appear in the appendix.)

Mr. MILLER. That is what I propose to do. I may say to you, Mr. Chairman, in such preparation as we could make for this hearing, our idea was it should be as flexible as it could be made so as to meet the desires of the committee to the extent possible; at the same time to be as helpful to the committee as possible without being too lengthy in our presentation. For that reason, I have had prepared and there is before each of you gentlemen a mimeographed document captioned "Summary of salient features of administrative procedure bills pending before the Committee on the Judiciary, House of Representatives, United States.” In the summary statement I take up each of the bills in their numerical order and very briefly summarize what we consider to be the salient features of those bills.

A very cursory examination of that statement will indicate to you gentlemen that, by and large, the bills cover the same general territory. There are differences in the details of them and in the approach, but I believe no good purpose would be served by my going into any elaborate description of the salient features of these various bills at this time.

The CHAIRMAN. I think you are right.

Mr. MILLER. I think the document presented to you will serve the purpose of shortening the hearing as much as possible. The chairman can, of course, have that statement incorporated in the record if he wishes; or, if not, as may suit the convenience of the committee.

The CHAIRMAN. We will be very glad to incorporate that in the record, Mr. Miller.

(The matter above referred to is as follows:)

SUMMARY STATEMENT OF SALIENT FEATURES OF ADMINISTRATIVE PROCEDURE BILLS

PENDING BEFORE COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY,, HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,
UNITED STATES, JUNE 21, 1945

(H. R. 184, Celler bill; H. R. 339 and H. R. 1117, Smith-Cravens bills; H. R. 1203,

Sumners bill ; H. R. 1206, Walter bill; H. R. 2602, Gwynne bill)

H. R. 184-CELLER BILL

I. DECLARATION OF GENERAL POLICY

1. All administrative authority should be effected by established procedures designed to assure adequate protection of private interests and to effectuate declared policies of Congress.

2. All procedures should be made known to all interested persons.

3. Adjudication should include due notice, opportunity to be heard, and prompt decision.

II. DELEGATION OF AUTHORITY
Provision is made for delegation of authority to subordinates.

III. OFFICE OF FEDERAL ADMINISTRATIVE PROCEDURE

1. Director of Federal Administrative Procedure, to be appointed by President, by and with advice and consent of Senate.

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