based upon a finding by the reviewing court that there was substantial evidence to support the facts as found by the agency below? Mr. MCFARLAND. That is right. That does not mean, as we sometimes hear it said, that they look only to certain pages of the record. You might have in the record something which would sustain the judgment; on the other hand, there might be incontrovertible evidence in the remainder of the record which utterly destroys it. The review must be of the whole record in the sense that any part of the record can be called upon. Mr. WALTER. What do you think of the scope of review in H. R. 1206, at page 53 of the bill? Mr. MCFARLAND. I should say that reflected the present judicial rule. (At this point the bell rang for a call of the House.) The CHAIRMAN. Mr. McFarland, you have made a wonderful presentation on the subject of administrative procedure, but if there is anything additional you could add to the statement you have made that would give additional information to the committee, we would be glad to have it. Mr. MCFARLAND. May I submit in writing an additional statement? The CHAIRMAN. You certainly may; yes, sir; but, before we adjourn, do you feel there is something additional you ought to say at the moment? Mr. MCFARLAND. I do not. The CHAIRMAN. It seems to us you have covered the field and have done a wonderful job. (After informal discussion the committee adjourned until tomorrow, Friday, June 22, 1945, at 10:30 a. m.) ADMINISTRATIVE PROCEDURE MONDAY, JUNE 25, 1945 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, The committee met at 10 a. m., Honorable Hatton, W. Sumners (chairman) presiding. The CHAIRMAN. The committee will be in order, please. We have this morning, I believe, as the first witness, Dr. Splawn, of the Interstate Commerce Commission. Dr. Splawn, will you be good enough to favor us with your observation about this matter. STATEMENT OF WALTER M. W. SPLAWN, COMMISSIONER, Mr. SPLAWN. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of the committee, I shall detain you only for a few moments. My name is Walter M. W. Splawn. I am Chairman of the legislative committee of the Interstate Commerce Commission. On behalf of the Commission I express our deep appreciation that you have met this morning to hear the Commission and the representatives of the Practitioners' Association of the Commission. We have in the Interstate Commerce Commission two committees interested in the subject matter of the bills which are now under consideration: The Legislative Committee and the Committee on Rules and Reports. When you sent the bills down to the Commission the Chairman referred them to the Legislative Committee and we recognized that we had on our committee one member, Commissioner Mahaffie, who is also a member of the Committee on Rules and Reports, and by asking for the two senior commissioners, whom we would have asked for, for reasons that will be obvious, we expanded the Legislative Committee to include also the Committee on Rules and Reports. I will take just a moment to tell you who this expanded committee of five are. The experience I have had in administrative procedure has been acquired as a member of the Railroad Commission of Texas, special counsel for the Committee on Interstate and Foreign Commerce, and as a member of the Interstate Commerce Commission. Chairman John L. Rogers, member of the Legislative Committee, began his career in the Commission in the Bureau of Locomotive Inspection. He was later an examiner in the Bureau of Service; then executive assistant to the Federal Coordinator, and was the first Director of the Bureau of Motor Carriers, and as a member of the Commission he is the Commissioner through whom that Bureau reports to the Commission. 41 Commissioner Charles D. Mahaffie was, at one time, for a period of years, Solicitor of the Department of Interior; about 10 years he was the Director of the Bureau of Finance, which Bureau, as you know, aids particularly division 4. To that division is assigned the group of statutory reglations dealing with securities, directorates, the issuance of certificates of convenience and necessity to extend lines or permit the abandonment of lines, and various other allied statutes, all of which involves various procedures. As a member of the Commission for about 15 years, Commissioner Mahaffie, among his other duties, has been a member of the Committee on Rules and Reports; and the Commissioner in charge of the Bureau of Finance and the Bureau of Accounts. Commissioner Claude R. Porter, one of the senior Commissioners, is a member of the Committee on Rules and Reports. At one time in his young manhood he was an Assistant Attorney General of the United States. For a period of years he was general counsel for the Federal Trade Commission where he assisted them in working out their procedures, and for almost 20 years has been a member of the Interstate Commerce Commission. He has, for a good part of that time, been on the Committee on Rules and Reports; the Commissioner in charge of the Bureau of Law and the Bureau of Inquiry, and has been interested in the matter dealt with in these bills. Our senior Commissioner, Clyde B. Aitchison, was appointed to the Commission in 1917; he is perhaps the dean of all administrative officials in the Federal Government. Before he came to the Commission, some 28 years ago, he was solicitor for the Association of Railway Commissioners, and during that time the State commissions and the Interstate Commerce Commission were working together in administering the recent act to make an evaluation of the railroads of the United States. Commissioner Aitchison, as solicitor for the State commissions, went through all of the conferences working out the procedures for the administration of that important statute. For seven and a half years before he was retained by the State commissioners he was a member of the State Commission of Oregon. As a member of the Interstate Commerce Commission he has handled every variety of the Commission's work, and is chairman of the Committee on Rules and Reports. For many years he has been most active in all matters pertaining to the organization of the Commission and the allocation. of the work of the Commission. He has been a constant and constructive student of administrative procedure. He was a member of the Attorney General's committee to which reference was made here last Thursday, and the Attorney General made him a member of his subcommittee. He is, by selection of the Judicial Conference, headed by the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, assigned to a committee of that conference to study judicial reviews, and possible changes in the reviews provided under the Emergency Deficiency Act of 1913. In the Seventy-seventh Congress, first session, when the Senate Committee on the Judiciary was considering their bills 674, 675 and 918, Commissioner Aitchison was the spokesman for the Commission, and during the time in which he analyzed those bills for the subcom Commission that the bills might be amended so as to exclude the Interstate Commerce Commission. At that time he expressed on behalf of the Commission the thought that it should be excluded, but he also voiced our hope that if we were not excluded some possible amendment might be made under which we could work. After further study and particularly the study of your revised and improved bill, H. R. 1203, we have reached the conclusion that we were correct in asking Commissioner Aitchison to voice our views in the Seventy-seventh Congress to request the exclusion of the Interstate Commerce Commission from whatever bills you may report, and to that end we have addressed to you a letter prepared by our legislative committee to which I have referred. A copy of this letter is already before the members of the committee, and at this time we respectfully request that the letter be incorporated in the record. The CHAIRMAN. It will be incorporated in the record. (The letter referred to follows:) Hon. HATTON W. SUMNERS, Chairman, Committee on the Judiciary, House of Representatives, Washington, D. C. JUNE 22, 1945. MY DEAR CHAIRMAN SUMNERS: Responsive to your request for comment on H. R. 1203, introduced by yourself, may I advise that this bill has been considered by the Legislative Committee of the Interstate Commerce Commission. Upon request of that Committee, the Commission added to its membership for the consideration of bills pertaining to administrative procedure our two senior Commissioners, Clyde B. Aitchison and Claude R. Porter. These two Commissioners with Commissioner Mahaffie also constitute the Commission's Committee on Rules and Reports. On behalf of the Legislative Committee the following comments are offered: On the general question of the need of something in the nature of a code of procedure to govern the various agencies of the Federal Government which exercise administrative functions, we express no opinion. We assume that you seek from us an expression with respect to the probable effect of a measure of this kind on the work of this Commission in its administration of the Interstate Commerce Act and related statutes. We respectfully request of your committee that the Interstate Commerce Commission be excepted from any bill such as this which your committee might see fit to report favorably. There is a precedent for such an exemption in the complete exclusion of the Commission from the Logan-Walter bill some years ago. Likewise, it will be recalled that the earlier administrative procedure proposals sponsored by the American Bar Association and its Administrative Law Committee excepted proceedings before this Commission. We reached this conclusion after careful consideration of H. R. 1203. The possible changes referred to yesterday during the course of the statement by Mr Carl McFarland, as set forth in a committee print of S. 7 of May —, 1945, if adopted, would still make difficult the work of this Commission. The Interstate Commerce Commission is the oldest of the administrative agencies of the Government. Throughout the 58 years of its existence it has given continuing study to its procedure, as a result of which it has devised and put into effect a number of procedural methods which are well understood and which have, we believe, the support of those who have dealings with this Commission. The Commission is not merely a kind of court for the settlement of controversies between individuals or those to which the Government is a party. It is an administrative tribunal with the broader responsibility of carrying out the national transportation policy declared by Congress in the Transportation Act of 1940. It has numerous other duties under divers acts of Congress. In functioning it is called on to perform numerous and varied duties demanding widely different forms of administrative procedure, each suited to the nature of the particular circumstances. Some of these procedures have been used for many years, others are comparatively new, and some are yet in the experimental stage, but all have proved reasonably satisfactory, and their operation is understood by those who Commissioner Charles D. Mahaffie was, at one time, for a period of years, Solicitor of the Department of Interior; about 10 years he was the Director of the Bureau of Finance, which Bureau, as you know, aids particularly division 4. To that division is assigned the group of statutory reglations dealing with securities, directorates, the issuance of certificates of convenience and necessity to extend lines or permit the abandonment of lines, and various other allied statutes, all of which involves various procedures. As a member of the Commission for about 15 years, Commissioner Mahaffie, among his other duties, has been a member of the Committee on Rules and Reports; and the Commissioner in charge of the Bureau of Finance and the Bureau of Accounts. Commissioner Claude R. Porter, one of the senior Commissioners, is a member of the Committee on Rules and Reports. At one time in his young maithood he was an Assistant Attorney General of the United States. For a period of years he was general counsel for the Federal Trade Commission where he assisted them in working out their procedures, and for almost 20 years has been a member of the Interstate Commerce Commission. He has, for a good part of that time, been on the Committee on Rules and Reports; the Commissioner in charge of the Bureau of Law and the Bureau of Inquiry, and has been interested in the matter dealt with in these bills. Our senior Commissioner, Clyde B. Aitchison, was appointed to the Commission in 1917; he is perhaps the dean of all administrative officials in the Federal Government. Before he came to the Commission, some 28 years ago, he was solicitor for the Association of Railway Commissioners, and during that time the State commissions and the Interstate Commerce Commission were working together in administering the recent act to make an evaluation of the railroads of the United States. Commissioner Aitchison, as solicitor for the State commissions, went through all of the conferences working out the procedures for the administration of that important statute. For seven and a half years before he was retained by the State commissioners he was a member of the State Commission of Oregon. As a member of the Interstate Commerce Commission he has handled every variety of the Commission's work, and is chairman of the Committee on Rules and Reports. For many years he has been most active in all matters pertaining to the organization of the Commission and the allocation of the work of the Commission. He has been a constant and constructive student of administrative procedure. He was a member of the Attorney General's committee to which reference was made here last Thursday, and the Attorney General made him a member of his subcommittee. He is, by selection of the Judicial Conference, headed by the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, assigned to a committee of that conference to study judicial reviews, and possible changes in the reviews provided under the Emergency Deficiency Act of 1913. In the Seventy-seventh Congress, first session, when the Senate Committee on the Judiciary was considering their bills 674, 675 and 918, Commissioner Aitchison was the spokesman for the Commission, and during the time in which he analyzed those bills for the subcom |