legislation in the judgment of the gentleman who is addressing the committee, and his associates, ought to be enacted. Mr. WALTER. If I may interrupt: Certainly, with regard to the review of the courts themselves of decisions of administrative agencies. The CHAIRMAN. I do not want to disturb what you have in mind as to an orderly procedure, but what we are anxious to get is usable information. Mr. MILLER. Mr. Chairman, I think if I explained to you what I propose to do, you will be able to judge as to whether you want it discussed, bearing in mind that I am simply trying to be just as helpful to the committee as I can. The CHAIRMAN. I understand. Mr. MILLER. In the consideration of this subject, quite naturally since 1941, when the Attorney General's committee submitted its report, the consideration has been based upon what that committee did. The CHAIRMAN. We are not interested in going into that now; we are interested in what you want us to do now. Mr. MILLER. What I have proposed to discuss, what I had planned to do, was to try to state what this committee pointed out it thought should be done. The CHAIRMAN. We want you to point out what you think ought to be done. A great deal of this has shifted; changes have occurred along the road, and what we want you to do now is to discuss it from the standpoint of what you think we should do. Mr. MILLER. That phase of it will be discussed by Mr. McFarland, and I will not attempt to repeat; and I do not want to put anything in the record except what is agreeable to the committee. Mr. Chairman, what I had planned to do was to give you the picture as presented by the report of the Attorney General's committee. The CHAIRMAN. I do not believe we are particularly interested in that at this time. What we want to know now is what the gentleman who is here before us believes should be done. Mr. WALTER. Some of us are aware of the reasons for the creation of the Attorney General's committee. Mr. MILLER. I know that is true. The CHAIRMAN. I know that the committee is tremendously interested in what should be done now. Mr. MILLER. I appreciate that, Mr. Chairman, and that matter will be the subject which Mr. McFarland will present to you. The CHAIRMAN. That is what we want to get at. Mr. MILLER. I think that being true, Mr. Chairman, I would simply state that we are trying to make our presentation as flexible as possible as we did not know what the committee would want. The CHAIRMAN. We need help and we need help badly. Mr. MILLER. In view of what the chairman has said, and in view of the fact that Mr. McFarland is to discuss the details of the bill I will give way to him now. The CHAIRMAN. You have done a very helpful thing; you have given us for the record the history of the development of this bill and we appreciate it, but we do want to get at the facts. Mr. MILLER. I appreciate that very much, Mr. Chairman, and as I say, we were trying to make our presentation as flexible as possible, Then came Pearl Harbor, and the war. For the next 2 years the special committee on administrative law devoted its energies to the development of the Conference on Administrative Law and other matters covered in its annual report (67 A. B. A. Rept. 226 (1942)). The situation was reviewed by the committee in its report for 1943. In a supplemental report submitted at the annual meeting in Chicago, in 1943, the committee noted indications of renewed public and congressional interest in the subject of administrative procedure, and submitted a tentative draft of material for Federal legislation on the subject, and urged the perfecting of a comprehensive proposal in order to provide detailed proposals upon which attention could be focused, serve as mutual provisions for reference, and furnish a draft for consideration in the adoption of a general administrative procedure statute (68 A. B. A. Rept. 249-253, 254-257 (1943)). The house of delegates approved the recommendations of the committee (68 A. B. A. Rept. 148 (1943)). At a meeting of the house of delegates of the American Bar Association, on February 28-29, 1944, a comprehensive bill to improve the administration of justice by prescribing fair standards of procedure was approved without a dissenting vote. American Bar Association Journal, April 1944, pages 181-189. On March 2, 1944, Congressman Gwynne introduced H. R. 4314, Seventy-eight Congress, second session, which would give effect to many of the American Bar Association recommendations in the form in which they were embodied in earlier drafts. The Gwynne bill was not, however, the American Bar Association bill in the perfected form which was approved by the house of delegates. The American Bar Association approved bill was introduced in the second session of the Seventy-eighth Congress, by Senator McCarran, as S. 2030 and by Congressman Sumners, of Texas, as H. R. 5081. No action was taken on either of these bills. Also introduced in the second session of the Seventy-eighth Congress was H. R. 5237, by Congressman Smith, of Virginia, to carry out the recommendations of his Select Committee to Investigate Executive Agencies, as contained in the sixth intermediate report of that committee (H. Rept. 1797, 78th Cong., 2d sess.). S. 7 and H. R. 1203, introduced in the first session of the Seventy-ninth Congress, are similar to S. 2030 and H. R. 5081, and represent the latest recommendations of the American Bar Association for legislation to improve the administration of justice. (The following bills relating to administrative procedure have also been introduced in the Seventy-ninth Congress: H. R. 184 (Celler), similar to S. 675, H. R. 4782, Seventy-seventh Congress, to carry out recommendations of majority of Attorney General's committee. H. R. 339 (Smith) similar to H. R. 5327, Seventyeighth Congress. H. R. 1206 (Walter), similar to S. 674, H. R. 4238, Seventyseventh Congress, to carry out recommendations of minority of Attorney General's committee.) Mr. MILLER. I come now to a subject that I think I shall have to discuss at some length, and I promise you, first of all, I am going to be as brief as I possibly can in all of my presentation and it may be of some interest to say I hope to complete it this forenoon. The CHAIRMAN. That is very gratifying. The committee has, of course, full knowledge of the report of the Attorney General's Committee on Administrative Procedure. I would like, with the permission of the Chair, to take a little time to discuss that report. Mr. WALTER. Which one of the reports are you referring to? Mr. MILLER. The Attorney General's committee report on administrative procedure. Mr. WALTER. There were four filed. Mr. MILLER. I am thinking of it as a whole; and between the minority and majority there were differences, but I am trying to deal here with all of them. The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Miller, I am not quite sure what you have in mind, but I am sure what the committee needs. The historical aspect of this matter is of interest to the commitee and probably of general legislation in the judgment of the gentleman who is addressing the committee, and his associates, ought to be enacted. Mr. WALTER. If I may interrupt: Certainly, with regard to the review of the courts themselves of decisions of administrative agencies. The CHAIRMAN. I do not want to disturb what you have in mind as to an orderly procedure, but what we are anxious to get is usable infor mation. Mr. MILLER. Mr. Chairman, I think if I explained to you what I propose to do, you will be able to judge as to whether you want it discussed, bearing in mind that I am simply trying to be just as helpful to the committee as I can. The CHAIRMAN. I understand. Mr. MILLER. In the consideration of this subject, quite naturally since 1941, when the Attorney General's committee submitted its report, the consideration has been based upon what that committee did. The CHAIRMAN. We are not interested in going into that now; we are interested in what you want us to do now. Mr. MILLER. What I have proposed to discuss, what I had planned to do, was to try to state what this committee pointed out it thought should be done. The CHAIRMAN. We want you to point out what you think ought to be done. A great deal of this has shifted; changes have occurred along the road, and what we want you to do now is to discuss it from the standpoint of what you think we should do. Mr. MILLER. That phase of it will be discussed by Mr. McFarland, and I will not attempt to repeat; and I do not want to put anything in the record except what is agreeable to the committee. Mr. Chairman, what I had planned to do was to give you the picture as presented by the report of the Attorney General's committee. The CHAIRMAN. I do not believe we are particularly interested in that at this time. What we want to know now is what the gentleman who is here before us believes should be done. Mr. WALTER. Some of us are aware of the reasons for the creation of the Attorney General's committee. Mr. MILLER. I know that is true. The CHAIRMAN. I know that the committee is tremendously interested in what should be done now. Mr. MILLER. I appreciate that, Mr. Chairman, and that matter will be the subject which Mr. McFarland will present to you. The CHAIRMAN. That is what we want to get at. Mr. MILLER. I think that being true, Mr. Chairman, I would simply state that we are trying to make our presentation as flexible as possible as we did not know what the committee would want. The CHAIRMAN. We need help and we need help badly. Mr. MILLER. In view of what the chairman has said, and in view of the fact that Mr. McFarland is to discuss the details of the bill I will give way to him now. The CHAIRMAN. You have done a very helpful thing; you have given us for the record the history of the development of this bill and we appreciate it, but we do want to get at the facts. Mr. MILLER. I appreciate that very much, Mr. Chairman, and as I say, we were trying to make our presentation as flexible as possible, Then came Pearl Harbor, and the war. For the next 2 years the special committee on administrative law devoted its energies to the development of the Conference on Administrative Law and other matters covered in its annual report (67 A. B. A. Rept. 226 (1942)). The situation was reviewed by the committee in its report for 1943. In a supplemental report submitted at the annual meeting in Chicago, in 1943, the committee noted indications of renewed public and congressional interest in the subject of administrative procedure, and submitted a tentative draft of material for Federal legislation on the subject, and urged the perfecting of a comprehensive proposal in order to provide detailed proposals upon which attention could be focused, serve as mutual provisions for reference, and furnish a draft for consideration in the adoption of a general administrative procedure statute (68 A. B. A. Rept. 249-253, 254-257 (1943)). The house of delegates approved the recommendations of the committee (68 A. B. A. Rept. 148 (1943)). At a meeting of the house of delegates of the American Bar Association, on February 28-29, 1944, a comprehensive bill to improve the administration of justice by prescribing fair standards of procedure was approved without a dissenting vote. American Bar Association Journal, April 1944, pages 181-189. On March 2, 1944, Congressman Gwynne introduced H. R. 4314, Seventy-eight Congress, second session, which would give effect to many of the American Bar Association recommendations in the form in which they were embodied in earlier drafts. The Gwynne bill was not, however, the American Bar Association bill in the perfected form which was approved by the house of delegates. The American Bar Association approved bill was introduced in the second session of the Seventy-eighth Congress, by Senator McCarran, as S. 2030 and by Congressman Sumners, of Texas, as H. R. 5081. No action was taken on either of these bills. Also introduced in the second session of the Seventy-eighth Congress was H. R. 5237, by Congressman Smith, of Virginia, to carry out the recommendations of his Select Committee to Investigate Executive Agencies, as contained in the sixth intermediate report of that committee (H. Rept. 1797, 78th Cong., 2d sess.). S. 7 and H. R. 1203, introduced in the first session of the Seventy-ninth Congress, are similar to S. 2030 and H. R. 5081, and represent the latest recommendations of the American Bar Association for legislation to improve the administration of justice. (The following bills relating to administrative procedure have also been introduced in the Seventy-ninth Congress: H. R. 184 (Celler), similar to S. 675, H. R. 4782, Seventy-seventh Congress, to carry out recommendations of majority of Attorney General's committee. H. R. 339 (Smith) similar to H. R. 5327, Seventyeighth Congress. H. R. 1206 (Walter), similar to S. 674, H. R. 4238, Seventyseventh Congress, to carry out recommendations of minority of Attorney General's committee.) Mr. MILLER. I come now to a subject that I think I shall have to discuss at some length, and I promise you, first of all, I am going to be as brief as I possibly can in all of my presentation and it may be of some interest to say I hope to complete it this forenoon. The CHAIRMAN. That is very gratifying. The committee has, of course, full knowledge of the report of the Attorney General's Committee on Administrative Procedure. I would like, with the permission of the Chair, to take a little time to discuss that report. Mr. WALTER. Which one of the reports are you referring to? Mr. MILLER. The Attorney General's committee report on administrative procedure. Mr. WALTER. There were four filed. Mr. MILLER. I am thinking of it as a whole; and between the minority and majority there were differences, but I am trying to deal here with all of them. The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Miller, I am not quite sure what you have in mind, but I am sure what the committee needs. The historical as of this matter is of interest to the commitee and probably of 21 legislation in the judgment of the gentleman who is addressing the Mr. WALTER. If I may interrupt: Certainly, with regard to the Mr. MILLER. Mr. Chairman, I think if I explained to you what I propose to do, you will be able to judge as to whether you want it discussed, bearing in mind that I am simply trying to be just as helpful to the committee as I can. The CHAIRMAN. I understand. Mr. MILLER. In the consideration of this subject, quite naturally since 1941, when the Attorney General's committee submitted its report, the consideration has been based upon what that committee did. The CHAIRMAN. We are not interested in going into that now; we are interested in what you want us to do now. Mr. MILLER. What I have proposed to discuss, what I had planned to do, was to try to state what this committee pointed out it thought should be done. The CHAIRMAN. We want you to point out what you think ought to be done. A great deal of this has shifted; changes have occurred along the road, and what we want you to do now is to discuss it from the standpoint of what you think we should do. Mr. MILLER. That phase of it will be discussed by Mr. McFarland, and I will not attempt to repeat; and I do not want to put anything in the record except what is agreeable to the committee. Mr. Chairman, what I had planned to do was to give you the picture as presented by the report of the Attorney General's committee. The CHAIRMAN. I do not believe we are particularly interested in that at this time. What we want to know now is what the gentleman who is here before us believes should be done. Mr. WALTER. Some of us are aware of the reasons for the creation of the Attorney General's committee. Mr. MILLER. I know that is true. The CHAIRMAN. I know that the committee is tremendously interested in what should be done now. Mr. MILLER. I appreciate that, Mr. Chairman, and that matter will be the subject which Mr. McFarland will present to you. The CHAIRMAN. That is what we want to get at. Mr. MILLER. I think that being true, Mr. Chairman, I would simply state that we are trying to make our presentation as flexible as possible as we did not know what the committee would want. The CHAIRMAN. We need help and we need help badly. Mr. MILLER. In view of what the chairman has said, and in view of the fact that Mr. McFarland is to discuss the details of the bill I will ive way to him now. The CHAIRMAN. You have done a very helpful thing; you have given Is for the record the history of the development of this bill and we appreciate it, but we do want to get at the facts. Mr. MILLER. I appreciate that very much, Mr. Chairman, and as I 47, we were trying to make our presentation as flexible as possible, and we do not have any written statements because we did not want 1 |