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that those people who are opposing a change now are in the same category. I am sure of it. Time will prove it so.

Senator BILBO. Gentlemen, I am sorry, it is 12 o'clock and we have some important matters to finish before the Senate. We will have to close the meeting until Monday at 10 o'clock. I will ask the secretary to notify the parties in here to have someone here to answer questions regarding the statements they have filed at 10 o'clock. If there is any other person here who has a statement and who cannot be here at 10 o'clock you may prepare your statement and file it with the committee. We will be glad to have it published with the hearing and I am sure each and every member of the Committee will read it. Did you have another question, Mr. Bez?

Mr. BEZ. Well, I would like to take about another 10 or 15 minutes. I will come back Monday, Senator, if that is all right.

Senator BILBO. We will be very glad to have you. The hearing, then, is adjourned until 10 o'clock Monday morning.

(Thereupon, at 12:15 p. m. a recess was taken until 10 a. ma Monday, January 24, 1944.)

ALASKA FISHERY ACT

MONDAY, JANUARY 24, 1944

UNITED STATES SENATE,

SUBCOMMITTEE OF COMMITTEE ON COMMERCE,

Washington, D. C.

The subcommittee met at 10 a. m., pursuant to adjournment on Friday, January 21, 1944, in the Commerce Committee hearing room, the Capitol, Senator Theodore G. Bilbo, chairman of the subcommittee, presiding.

Present: Senators Bilbo (chairman of the subcommittee) Wallgren, and Robertson.

Senator BILBO (chairman of the subcommittee). The committee will come to order. I believe someone from the Department of the Interior is to be heard this morning. If he will come around to the other side of the table and take a seat opposite the committee reporter, we will be glad to hear him.

STATEMENT OF HERBERT J. SLAUGHTER, ASSISTANT SOLICITOR, DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR, WASHINGTON, D. C.

Senator BILBO. Please give your name and position for the purpose of the record.

Mr. SLAUGHTER. For the record, my name is Herbert J. Slaughter. I am Assistant Solicitor, Department of the Interior.

Senator WALLGREN. Mr. Chairman, give me an opportunity to get my papers together.

Mr. SLAUGHTER. Shall I proceed?

Senator BILBO. Yes; unless Senator Wallgren wishes to propound some questions.

Senator WALLGREN. I wish to ask some questions. Naturally I feel a very keen interest in this bill. It has been termed the Wallgren bill, and I introduced it, and I hope it may be my bill by the time we get through with it.

Senator BILBO. You may proceed, Senator Wallgren.

Senator WALLGREN. Mr. Slaughter, you wrote this report; did you not?

Mr. SLAUGHTER. This report was written in my office.

Senator WALLGREN. But my question is: You wrote it; did you

not?

Mr. SLAUGHTER. Well, I did the most of the drafting of it. Senator WALLGREN. And you were aware of the fact that on Tuesday last I appeared in the office of the Secretary of the Interior on this subject?

Mr. SLAUGHTER. I was aware of that fact. I was not aware of the fact that certain of these amendments that were attached to the

original draft of the bill as introduced, were sponsored by you. As you will notice, the most of these amendments were included in the list which the Department submitted, and I should like to take this opportunity of saying that we appreciate very much the suggestions contained in these amendments.

Senator WALLGREN. When I appeared before the Secretary of the Interior we called in Mr. Fortas and the Secretary told him that he thought we ought to have a conference on this bill and iron out any difficulties that might exist. He was advised that these were amendments I had agreed to after conferring with men like Dr. Gabrielson and the Secretary of the Interior. It was pointed out that in the original bill there was the possibility of a vested right being given to someone; that there was the possibility of some things being given away. I had agreed to those changes.

Now, this report comes back, and if we print it in the record along with our report on the bill, if it is reported out, the way this report starts out would indicate to any member of the Senate that I did not know what I was trying to do when I wrote this bill.

After all, this report recommends several amendments I had already included in the draft that you have, Mr. Chairman, and that Senator Burton has, as well as other members of the subcommittee; and, for instance, the draft that Delegate Dimond has. So all these amendments had been presented to them, and Dr. Gabrielson had this copy when he appeared with these other people to have a conference on this bill.

So, as I say, this letter starts off, in the second paragraph, with this language:

Because of the objectionable features of S. 930 in its present form— We were not asking anyone to consider it in that form. And, on top of that, it was not being presented to this subcommittee in that form because I came in with these recommended amendments after talking to people in the Department who would have to administer the bill. In the third paragraph, according to the Secretary:

Substantial need exists for a general revision of the Alaska fishery laws. Numerous significant changes in economic conditions and in fishing practices have occurred since 1924 when the last general statute on this subject was enacted. Furthermore, much fuller information is now available with respect to many of the scientific and practical factors bearing upon the solution of fishery problems. The experience gained through the administration of the present laws has revealed many points at which their clarification, amplification, strengthening, or relaxation, would be desirable.

Now, in what way would you suggest that the conservation laws should be relaxed?

Mr. SLAUGHTER. Do you mean specifically?

Senator WALLGREN. Yes; because I think a report like this ought to be specific. This report is going to be made a part of the record, I I take it. It has to go along with the letter, and with anything we have in connection with this bill, and it ought to be specific.

Mr. SLAUGHTER. As a specific relaxation I would point out that S 930 as introduced repeals the existing provision of the Alaska fishery laws, which requires a 36-hour weekly closed period.

Senator ROBERTSON. I did not catch that last part of your statement.

Mr. SLAUGHTER. I say, it repeals the existing provision of the Alaska fishery laws, which require a 36-hour period every week during which fishing operations must be closed down.

Senator WALLGREN. If there is any question about any statement of that kind by any man in this room, he will please raise his right hand. [A pause without response.] I would like to get this matter ironed out. I do not want statements made here unless they are ironed out. But you may go ahead.

Mr. SLAUGHTER. As introduced, S. 930 also specifically repeals the existing provisions of the Alaska fishery laws which require that in all cases the Director must permit a 50 percent escapement of salmon. That is, he must allow 50 percent of the salmon run to get up the stream, regardless of what his judgment might be as to the number of salmon it is necessary to get up the stream in order to maintain the runs. Both of these provisions are, I think, fairly to be considered as relaxations of the existing law, and they are relaxations which the Department thoroughly approves.

Senator WALLGREN. I wish to call the subcommittee's attention especially to this third paragraph, wherein the Department agrees there is need for legislation along this line. The Department seems to be in favor of this bill but wants to rewrite it in some particulars. The first point mentioned is jurisdiction over offshore waters. I note that the report states that the bill "does not give due recognition to accepted principles of international fair play," and "is not properly adjusted to the actual extent of the waters over which regulatory controls should be extended."

Now, your report is dated January 21, 1944. That is a day after the hearings started, and it is 9 months after S. 930 was introduced. That is when we finally get a report from the Department of the Interior on my bill. I am struck, however, by the fact that in your proposed amendments you use the exact language I proposed to the committee on Thursday.

Mr. Chairman, they criticize my bill and then come in with this report, and at the same time use the exact language that I use and have written into this bill.

Senator BILBO (chairman of the subcommittee). As I understand it, Senator Wallgren, the Department's report on the bill is on the bill you originally introduced. And it is not on your amended bill, that we are considering.

Senator WALLGREN. Yes; that is the report.

Senator BILBO. We have laid aside S. 930 as originally introduced. We are dealing exclusively here with your bill as amended, but the Department's report is on the original bill and not on this amended

bill.

Senator WALLGREN. That is the point I want to make. First, the Department had my bill for 9 months, and Dr. Gabrielson had this сору, and he attended a conference up in the Department of the Interior, where they had this bill, but even then they wrote a report on S. 930 without any mention of the fact that the suggested amendments would remedy the situation. They come in here and write in the very amendments I had written into the original bill.

Senator BILBO. In the report the Department is bringing to us this morning, do they go beyond the amendments you had already suggested?

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