it used to be, when you were 16 you are getting too old to be in school; you must go out and work. That is where I lost my education. I don't know if I would be much of a help for you on some of the questions which you would like to ask me, about how things could be, but I would be glad if there is anything that you think would be interesting for me, being a priest here, to answer. There is one which I would answer. If ever somebody wants to buy land here or at St. George, would it make any difference where he stays, if he wants to buy land here or at St. George? Would he have to buy land just where he is or at the other place? Senator BARTLETT. As a matter of fact, Father, the provision for land ownership under the terms of this bill applies only now to St. Paul and not St. George. Father LESTENKOF. Not St. George? Senator BARTLETT. No. I will inquire into that a bit more as time goes on. Father LESTENKOF. Is there any reason for that? Senator BARTLETT. I think there is. You didn't need to apologize for not mastering all the language in this bill at a first reading. This is "highfalutin❞ legal phraseology, and I don't pretend to understand all of it myself. That is why we are sitting here; that is why we are talking over these sections; that is why we are all trying to learn more about it. The bill bears my name, it is true. I offered it, as I said at the outset of the hearing, only as a proposal to get it in front of all of us in printed form. Now, to come back to your question, I would say, speculatively, without any sure knowledge, that perhaps it applies only to St. Paul because it is just possible that the Interior Department-and I don't think this will be any great surprise to you-foresees the time when the people of St. George will say St. George is where we used to live, and St. Paul is where we live now. In conversations I have had already with some people from St. George, I inferred that they would rather stay right where they are. If that is the fact, instead of a fancy on my part, as it might be, then I think we will have to take a long, hard look at this. May I ask you, Father, if you were working here on the island or on the islands during all your period of Government service? Father LESTENKOF. Yes. I would say most all of it, besides the evacuation as you know during the wartime. We were still working under the Government. I spent 5 months in Seattle in 1949-50, in the winter, and I was still working for the Bureau of Commercial Fisheries. Senator BARTLETT. You worked continuously for the Bureau of Commercial Fisheries for 33 years? Father LESTENKOF. The Bureau of Fisheries first, I guess it was. Senator BARTLETT. Yes. Did you finally become a civil service employee? Father LESTENKOF. Not exactly. It was in what was called your personal actions, when I filled up the forms. Senator BARTLETT. When you reach the proper age, which I hope will be a long time from now, will you get any retirement benefits? Father LESTENKOF. According to what I heard about it, it is from 1950 on. Senator BARTLETT. From 1950 on. And if this bill is passed, from 1950 back, too. Where were you born, Father? Father LESTENKOF. St. George Island. Senator BARTLETT. How long did you live there? Senator BARTLETT. That was home until them? Father LESTENKOF. Yes. Senator BARTLETT. You have been a priest for 2 years? Father LESTENKOF. Two years now. Senator BARTLETT. How long, do you know, has there been a church on this island? Father LESTENKOF. This one? Senator BARTLETT. Yes. Father LESTEN KOF. I don't know, but this one, the one we have now, was built in 1907. Senator BARTLETT. Was there a church here before then? Father LESTENKOF. Yes. Senator BARTLETT. Would the church records show when the first church was established here? Father LESTENKOF. I don't have any books that would show when the first church was established, or how long they had it before this one. Senator BARTLETT. You serve both St. Paul and St. George? Father LESTENKOF. Now, yes. Senator BARTLETT. Is there a church over there, too? Father LESTENKOF. There is. The one thing which I have in mind about that, at the time when we discussed evacuating the people from St. George to here, at the meeting I asked Mr. Baltzo about the property we have over there in the church, the land and the property, and settle a need for the Government to think about it, for people to leave the island. In answer to it, he said that is your headache. Senator BARTLETT. Your what? Father LESTENKOF. Your headache. Senator BARTLETT. I wonder what he meant? Father LESTENKOF. I don't know. But I did write to you about the property we have, and how the people live over there in the wintertime. În answer to your letter here, which I got from you, it didn't fully answer the letter I wrote to you. Senator BARTLETT. You heard from me after this letter dated July 27, 1962? Father LESTENKOF. No. Senator BARTLETT. May I borrow this for a few days and send it back to you? Father LESTENKOF. That is all right. Senator BARTLETT. How do you get over to St. George to conduct services there? Father LESTENKOF. We have the ship Pribilof that comes around here. On this trip I missed it because of an epidemic over there, a mumps epidemic. Senator BARTLETT. How about in the winter months? Father LESTENKOF. Not until the boat comes around, like one will be coming up maybe before Christmas, which I am looking forward to go over there and serve other there. Senator BARTLETT. You stay there only while the boat is in port? Father LESTENKOF. Yes. Senator BARTLETT. Is this Government land that the church here is situated upon? Father LESTENKOF. Pardon? Senator BARTLETT. Does the Government own the land where the church is located here? Father LESTENKOF. No. We are fixing up our church land. Here is an answer which I got from Mr. Baltzo, which shows you what happens to our church land. Senator BARTLETT. It will be well to read part of this into the record. It is a letter dated August 18, 1965, signed by C. Howard Baltzo, Program Director, Mammal Resources, Fish and Wildlife Service, Bureau of Commercial Fisheries, U.S. Department of the Interior, Pacific Northwest Region, Region 1. DEAR FATHER: I am happy to pass on to you the good news that title to church lands on St. Paul and St. George Islands will be conveyed officially to your church in a few days. State Director Silcock of the Bureau of Land Management informs me that patent will issue on August 23. Have you received that patent yet? Father LESTENKOF. Not yet. Senator BARTLETT. But it will be here soon and the land will then be owned by the church? Father LESTENKOF. Yes, we hope. Senator BARTLETT. I am sure it will be. Will this be true of St. George, too? Senator BARTLETT. What do you think, Father, about moving the people from St. George over here? Father LESTENKOF. In a short way I can tell you the most meaning of the people, trying to make a move from St. George to here, that is their own place, their birthplace. Everybody else all over the world has their own birthplace, which they always feel like to go back or to return to when they retire, no matter where it is, if it is on top of the world or down in the South Pole or anywhere. These people here in St. Paul, now and maybe in the future, will have the right to say "this is my homeland; this is my birthplace.' What about St. George? If they move them to here and just forget about St. George, how could they have rights to say "this is my birthplace"? When they get old, just like anybody else, they feel like retiring and going home, where will their home be? There will be no home. You can take it that way. It is the only reason why, I think, most people at St. George, whoever is left there, tightly is hanging on to the place where people could call it their homeland or birthplace. A lot of times, I have been told, look at me, I am from Minnesota, or I am from Missouri, and here I am staying with you, and why can't you do it. This question came up to me not long ago and I tell them I might be 40 miles away from my home, but it doesn't make any difference whether I am 2,000 or 3,000 miles, I am just as bad as you, I am not in my home now. I told them, if they move the people from St. George to here, and if they move all the people from Minnesota or Missouri or St. Louis, and that is your home, if everybody is moved from Minnesota or some one State, if you are going to retire or want to go home, where could you go? You have no home because your place was long forgotten. That is the same, I think, for the people of St. George. Senator BARTLETT. Do you think they feel this way, that they want to stay there? They have talked to you, I know. Father LESTENKOF. Yes, that is the way I look at it. Senator BARTLETT. You have talked with them about this? Father LESTENKOF. Yes. Senator BARTLETT. Have you talked with any who want to come over here? Father LESTENKOF. Not that I know of, who want to come over here. Senator BARTLETT. Father, you have made a very interesting and constructive statement. We thank you. If you have anything more, we would be glad to hear it. I have no further questions. Father LESTENKOF. Not that I know of now. If there is any way I could contact you after you leave, I will be always glad to do so when questions come up. Senator BARTLETT. In response to that, Father, I will write down my address for you right now, and I hope you will. Unless someone stands up to come forward from St. Paul, I will assume, for the time being at least, that all St. Paul witnesses have been heard. Is there anyone else from St. Paul now? FURTHER STATEMENT OF ILIODOR MERCULIEF Mr. ILIODOR MERCULIEF. Gentlemen, I would like to come up once more, please. Senator BARTLETT. Come on. Mr. ILIODOR MERCULIEF. Senator, I have heard a few witnesses. here who asked you various questions. You mentioned that they are trying to negotiate more jobs to be made available, such as fishing and tourism. It is true that we have had tourists this past season, and it is the first time in the history of the islands we sold them curios that are made on the island. That is very limited, as you may know. Our sealing season is very short. It may be only 6 weeks, I believe, 7 at the most. During that time I don't think we will have enough business in tourists, so whatever we get from the tourism will be just a drop in the bucket. I think I have seen, from what I glanced at the Governor's commission's report, there also was some recommendations made by the commission to have a small boat harbor built here, and it went on to say that there were Army Engineers that were here and surveyed the possibilities of establishing one. It would be nice if that could be established. There is a big problem of where the funds will come from. Inasmuch as I have stated to you, and here again I speak about the State, they haven't been helping us as much as they should in any manner. We have been paying taxes and we haven't had any help from the State. We have been paying school taxes, and yet the State hasn't provided material for the school. Therefore I still maintain that you should make a rigid effort to try to put that No. 2 amendment that we had presented to you into effect. Speaking of fishing again, if we do start a fishing business here, we would have to get vessels, and that will cost money. That is where the No. 2 amendment would come in very handy. We would get our fishing fleet then. And we would have to train our boys in commercial fishing, which they have never had any experience in, although there are a very few that have had such experience. That is a possibility where we can get more than we can get from tourism. Tourism and the arts and crafts are connected together. I still maintain that we wouldn't get sufficient funds out of that to operate an incorporated city. Therefore again I stress that we appreciate very much all the efforts you can put in to try to get our No. 2 amendment passed in your bill. That is all I have. Senator BARTLETT. I am beginning to believe that you favor amendment No. 2. [Laughter.] Mr. ILIODOR MERCULIEFF. Yes; I do. Senator BARTLETT. I would want to suggest, if I may, in addition to telling me, and especially so since it will be some little while before this report will be printed, that you might, as the village council, want to draw up a letter directed to the appropriate authorities in Juneau, the State capital, and tell them what you have told the committee today, with the same emphasis that you have given to the committee, so that word will be passed on down to Juneau even before it is considered in Washington, because we won't be taking the bill up until next winter. Mr. ILIODOR MERCULIEFF. I will be happy to do that. I was going to ask you if I can have the copies of your reporter's minutes here, if they can be made available to us, and if so how soon will I be able to get the copies so I can use the exact words that I am telling you here. [Laughter.] Senator BARTLETT. That is the trouble. It is going to be a while. Mr. Monick has to take all this tape back to Washington, then it is typed out. And I guess before it is put into print we can arrange to have a typewritten copy made available to you. We should do that anyway so that you and the other witnesses who have testified may have an opportunity to correct your testimony, look it over, and make any changes you desire before it appears in printed form. I might as well say right now that the record will remain open for 1 month from today; namely, October 9, so that anyone who desires may submit additional statements for the record. Mr. ILIODOR MERCULIEF. By corresponding, you mean? Senator BARTLETT. Right. And the correspondence should be directed to Mr. William C. Foster, Senate Commerce Committee, Washington 25, D.C. |