Rev. SMILE GROMOFF. In the past we didn't actually own anything, outside of what we had in the house, like what we wear. If we owned the land I think it would mean you are a landowner. Senator BARTLETT. It would give you a feeling of security? Senator BARTLETT. Do you consider that the people of St. Paul are now slaves, or that they live in a condition of servitude? Rev. SMILE GROMOFF. No. It was years back, when I was a little boy. That is when it was practiced. Senator BARTLETT. When did the change occur for the better, do you remember? Rev. SMILE GROMOFF. I should think after we started this wage plan in 1950, when they started paying us a little better wages. Senator BARTLETT. That helped? Rev. SMILE GROMOFF. Yes. Senator BARTLETT. Other witnesses have said that improvements are going along all the time. Do you agree with this? Rev. SMILE GROMOFF. Yes, there are improvements. Senator BARTLETT. Aside from whatever aids and benefits might be found in this bill, what other things in your opinion should the Government do to bring true democracy, a true American form of government, to these islands? Rev. SMILE GROMOFF. The Government is planning to phase out in 5 years-5 or 2 years and give all the responsibility to the people of the island. Senator BARTLETT. What responsibility? Rev. SMILE GROMOFF. Of taking care of the whole island, like the store, running everything for ourselves. The municipalities, like any other city. Senator BARTLETT. That would be conditioned upon the passage of this bill or something like it? Rev. SMILE GROMOFF. Yes. Senator BARTLETT. What if the bill didn't pass; then would the people be required to do these things? Rev. SMILE GROMOFF. I don't know. I can't answer that. Senator BARTLETT. From what you understand, people would be given these added responsibilities and added rights, too, by the way, if legislation based upon these lines is enacted into law; is that cor rect? Rev. SMILE GROMOFF. Yes. Senator BARTLETT. Do you approve of this? Do you think the people ought to have their own city government, operate it themselves? Rev. SMILE GROMOFF. In order to do that, I think we should get help from outside, in order to put the people on their own two feet. Senator BARTLETT. You condition your reply by saying "Yes," provided these amendments were adopted? Rev. SMILE GROMOFF. Yes. Senator BARTLETT. Do you have anything else you would like to tell the committee? Rev. SMILE GROMOFF. The thing I would like to have the Bureau do before they leave is to give us the black and white, when are they leaving, what they will be doing in that period of 5 years. 62-646-66- -5 Senator BARTLETT. I haven't heard the 5-year figure before you mentioned it. We will inquire of the Government witnesses later on about that. You want them to do what? Rev. SMILE GROMOFF. To give us something in black and white, what are their real plans of phasing out of here and giving us the responsibility to take over the islands. Senator BARTLETT. I suppose it would be kind of hard for them to give you anything definite on that unless there is a law. That would be speculation. You are not discontented, or you are discontented, with the treatment being given you personally, and other people on the Island? Rev. SMILE GROMOFF. NO. Senator BARTLETT. You are not discontented? Rev. SMILE GROMOFF. Not now. Senator BARTLETT. It is far better, you believe? Rev. SMILE GROMOFF. Yes. Senator BARTLETT. Have you been on the mainland much? Rev. SMILE GROMOFF. Yes. I was there in 1948. Went to school in Pennsylvania and St. Paul, and was in the Army. Senator BARTLETT. Based upon your experiences living in other places, are there any great differences between St. Paul and those places you were in with respect to individual freedoms, opportunity to find work, type of housing and living in general? Rev. SMILE GROMOFF. It is about the same. In the future-like they are laying off men now-maybe someday it will have to be like some other places like in the "Chain," if a man is laid off he has to leave the islands to work until the sealing season and come back here to work again. That is the only way he can get yearly employment. Senator BARTLETT. I don't relate what I have to say to the Pribilofs, but on the mainland we have seen some terrific changes in the ways of the lives of the native people, more especially the Eskimo people, who are leaving their ancient villages, communities, and who are going to the larger metropolitan centers to discover and find employment on a more permanent basis, because a generation ago, I suspect, only a tiny fraction of them lived in a wage economy, that is to say, very few of them worked for others and received wages for doing so. They lived from the sea and from the land. It was a subsistence economy. All that changed since the war. Whether it is good or bad, that is what has happened there. I don't say it ought to happen here or needs to happen here. There are terrific migrations of people taking place not only in Alaska but all over the country. Some are going into California every day, thousands, I guess, attracted by better opportunities. The Americans are a shifting race. They move about more than any other people anywhere else in the world. It would seem to me that here you perhaps have an opportunity to avoid this, if you desire to avoid it, if the recommendations made in the report which Mr. Bowman brought with him can be translated into effective action or at least partially effective action, to bring tourists in, to sell them homemade products, to develop possibly a fishery, to do other things to diversify your employment. You have now only sealing upon which to depend, either directly or indirectly. I think it is the purpose of all concerned, the State and the Federal Govern ment, to try to help you and bring about these changes, these changes for the better insofar as duration of employment and enjoyment of life, insofar as that enjoyment is made possible by the possession of more dollars. Do you have any questions, Mr. Foster? Mr. FOSTER. Just one, Mr. Chairman. I wonder if you would try to clarify the question you raised about the possible future of the Bureau of Commercial Fisheries here on the island. You asked what their long-range plan might be. I want to make certain that you understand section 201 of the bill, the first section in this title, it is very clearly stated that the Pribilof Islands shall continue to be administered as a special reservation by the Secretary of the Interior for conserving and protecting the fur seal. In other words, the Secretary's responsibility here on the island basically, in terms of conserving and protecting the fur seal, remains unchanged. He would have no authority to transfer that basic responsibility to anyone. They would stay here and retain that responsibility insofar as the protection and conservation of the fur seal are concerned. What the bill does change in terms of something in the future is the administration of the village, the ownership of property in the village, but nothing in terms of the Bureau of Commercial Fisheries leaving here, or pulling out, or going anywhere, only to that extent. That, of course, is when you say what are their plans in the future, I presume you mean within the context of the proposal that those special responsibilities in terms of managing the community, and the ownership of the property in the community, in the future might be turned over to the community itself, but not in terms of the Bureau of Commercial Fisheries leaving or going anywhere, because under his bill those responsibilities are very clearly retained. Rev. SMILE GROMOFF. They said they would be moving out in 5 years. I think what they mean by that is the administrative part; that they will be here to conduct the sealing. In that time I guess is the only time we will be employed during those 3 months. Mr. FOSTER. Your understanding is if something like this is passed, they might leave the island, then come back, be here, have people here, employees here only during the sealing season? Rev. SMILE GROMOFF. That's right. Mr. FOSTER. And after that they might pull out the Pribilof vessel, and everybody would leave? Rev. SMILE GROMOFF. Yes. Mr. FOSTER. I wanted to be sure what your question was. You understand that if this bill is passed that might occur, and you were wondering what their long-term plans are. Is that the context of what you understand what they might do? Rev. SMILE GROMOFF. Right. Yes. Mr. FOSTER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Rev. SMILE GROMOFF. That is all that I have to say, Mr. Chairman. Senator BARTLETT. I think we can state emphatically that any such report that has reached you is erroneously based. The Bureau of Fisheries couldn't operate that way. If they could, they might have tried it long since. They have to be here the year round for the management of this resource, as pointed out by Mr. Foster in the beginning of the paragraph in section 201. I get the intent of your question now. I didn't before. I thought you were referring only to the municipal functions. Any report you heard about 5 years, I am confident is rumor, not fact. Rev. SMILE GROMOFF. Thank you. Senator BARTLETT. Is there anyone else from St. Paul, before we hear from St. George? Mr. ILIODOR MERCULIEFF. Is there anybody else from St. Paul? If not we will go to St. George. Father? Senator BARTLETT. Be seated, Father. STATEMENT OF FATHER LESTENKOF, RECTOR, ST. PAUL ISLAND Father LESTENKOF. I am Father Lestenkof, the rector in St. Paul now since I resigned from the Government in 1963. It might be interesting to know how I resigned. Senator BARTLETT. Yes, indeed. Won't you be seated and be comfortable. Father LESTENKOF. As you can see, some new plans now which they have, they offer free education from Government for somebody to use either for the islands or for the outside. My way was, as when I tried to do, I didn't know for sure whether I would become a priest or not, I asked for some kind of a leave to go down to Sitka where I got my seminary training. Mr. Williams, Ray Williams, who is now at the Seattle office, he asked-he had a law office-if he could grant me an annual leave without pay to get this education for my priesthood. Finally he, in return in his letter said such education cannot be granted for anyone if it couldn't be used for the Government use, as I would have to study for my priesthood. So I got my resignation papers already made, and all I had to do was sign it. My wife was kind of worried, knowing that I had been working for the Government 33 years steady, year round jobs, since 1929, when I started to work at 15 years of age, until 1963. Finally I was thinking and thinking, and thought why didn't they question a guy if he wanted to resign or make up his mind that he is going to leave from Government. I thought I might as well resign and with God's help I might become a priest when I finished my education at Sitka. So I did resign. Right at the minute, when I resigned, I felt much more freedom, for some reason I don't know. The Like when you asked the Father Deacon if he feels free now. best way I could answer it, I feel much freer now where I am now than when I was in Government employ for 33 years. Where I am now I don't see much of the oppressions we used to get in those days, as the charges used to be, for your misconduct which you made not at work time but will be charged for you at the time when you are working. It used to be you would find you wouldn't be chosen because you were misconducting in drinking, even if it is not on your work time, like mine was, true. I was on leave without pay for 2 weeks for misconducting in drinking at the weekend, not at the working hours. The Government used to put it out in those days, 2 weeks without pay will be for a guy why is drinking at the time of working. I tried to get squared away with the office, and he said no, it is just the same, you have been drinking, and we will give you 2 weeks without pay. When the time comes, this guy asks me back again; he said, "Mike, how have you been feeling after 2 weeks without pay?" I told him "I am happy to spend that, because it is my first honeymoon since I got married." [Laughter.] I didn't lose anything on that. I did enjoy it, and I got back to my job again. I did almost lose all my interest on being a Government employee when I got that resignation, when I was at Sitka. I have the papers here in answer to Mr. Williams who wrote to the Seattle office, and in answer to his letter, and my copy of the resignation papers, it caused me to almost lose all my interest in the islands which I have been serving for 34 years. As I can see it now, some of this education I grant you is very good. If I would be working for the Government, I would be very glad to take one of them and train him myself, whether I used him here on the islands or outside. Mine was just like that. I couldn't even wait for at least 6 months to hold me, just like the letter stated. The letter said we can't grant a leave without pay when others are waiting to replace your job to replace you where you are. But I come back and found out my place was not filled. It never was filled. That is where I get all the discouragements. Otherwise I didn't have any feelings toward anybody for becoming what I am now. While I was at St. George, before I came here, I kind of lost interest in what the Government was doing, and what the Government employees were doing; because as here, it is different. When somebody comes up they can invite me and they can call me. Mr. Bowman came around last winter to invite me to come up to the meeting, and the Secretary of the Interior came up here and asked me to attend the meeting here. It is all very interesting. I lose some part of my time in not making a move, beside being a priest and taking care of the church. My job is to see to the church properties and other things I am taking care of. I felt like I left it behind, coming back here to St. Paul. I felt like I was coming back on my feet again. It is very interesting to stay here because I am coming to see more of the people. When I was at St. George a lot of times I used to find out there would be a guy coming down from Washington or some other place and I never did see the face, or know his name, and he went away before I had a chance to see him. All the time they would be unloading the Penguin of the cargo. Right here I am happy to see that I am not left behind. I am glad to see what I can do in both religion and the living of the people for both islands. I am glad I am not forgotten now again, like I though I was when I resigned from the Government. Other than that, I am not much of a good reader in some of the English which you are using in the bill, and don't come along with the Council about it yet, and what it is all about. I don't know much of it yet at the present, because I was not educated that high. I was only a fifth-grader and part of sixth grader in school. I was forced to go out from school because I was 16 years old. In those days is how |